[BryceC]

Originally Posted by hawkeye12345

Are you serious? alford couldn't recruit his way out of a wet paper bag....it was Noodles that could recruit and he wasn't at Iowa early enough to save alfords job.

Alford got a top 5 class to Iowa without Neal.

[JHHawk]

Originally Posted by hawkeye12345

Are you serious? alford couldn't recruit his way out of a wet paper bag....it was Noodles that could recruit and he wasn't at Iowa early enough to save alfords job.

alford was at Iowa for 10 yrs....10 Mother F'ing Years!!!!!!!! And we made it to the NCAA's twice or was it three times? What makes you think that we would have made it more than 20% of the time going forward? alford and NEAL did a great job of going in to a midmajor and hiring an asst. out of Houston that brought some real nice 3 star and one 4 star players with him. He also took D Gary from Iowa. When you play in a midmajor, one or two players can make a HUGE difference during the regular season but look at his lack of success in the tournaments. In 2008 (1st yr) the team went 24-9 but lost in the 1st round of the NIT. In 2009, the team went 22-12 and lost in the 2nd round of the NIT. Last year, the team went 30-5 and still lost in the 2nd round of the NCAAs. That's a ton of success for a midmajor but almost meaningless to a major conference program.

Please stop bringing that clown up or I'm going to have a frickin heart attack.

Maybe you would be taken more seriously if your facts were correct.
SA was at Iowa 8 years...only missed by 20%!
Iowa made the tourny 3 times in those years.
And at NM, SA has finished 2nd,1st and 1st in the Mountain West his three years since leaving Iowa. If you think NMexico fans are upset with his performance, go check their message boards...they love him,he is their Lute Olson at this point.

CAAR...we all know how important recruiting is, but you do make the caveat that Fran has the new facility to work with,and an unusually strong 2012 Iowa prep class coming out...I also think you can add to that the absolute fact that the Big Ten is losing its strongest senior class in ages after this year....this could allow a less talented Iowa team to move up the pecking order. Lick had none of those three factors working for him,(altho I do not think for a minute it would have mattered).

So, while I respect your research, I cling to the hope that these external factors might just make enough of a difference to get Iowa bb on track. Then if they could add Jok the next year, they could concievably really take off. But everyone has to start somewhere. I do not really remember Dick Bennetts first classes at Wisc, being very sexy...nor Bo Ryan's.

[tweeterhawk]

Originally Posted by JHHawk

Maybe you would be taken more seriously if your facts were correct.
SA was at Iowa 8 years...only missed by 20%!
Iowa made the tourny 3 times in those years.
And at NM, SA has finished 2nd,1st and 1st in the Mountain West his three years since leaving Iowa. If you think NMexico fans are upset with his performance, go check their message boards...they love him,he is their Lute Olson at this point.

CAAR...we all know how important recruiting is, but you do make the caveat that Fran has the new facility to work with,and an unusually strong 2012 Iowa prep class coming out...I also think you can add to that the absolute fact that the Big Ten is losing its strongest senior class in ages after this year....this could allow a less talented Iowa team to move up the pecking order. Lick had none of those three factors working for him,(altho I do not think for a minute it would have mattered).

So, while I respect your research, I cling to the hope that these external factors might just make enough of a difference to get Iowa bb on track. Then if they could add Jok the next year, they could concievably really take off. But everyone has to start somewhere. I do not really remember Dick Bennetts first classes at Wisc, being very sexy...nor Bo Ryan's.

SA had some successes but I think it comes down to a simple question: did he leave the program in better shape than he found it? By almost any measure, the answer would be a pretty resounding "No." Attendance fell, revenues were down, donor support tightened, the fan base did not seem to embrace him, particularly towards the end.

Lickliter seemed to be a nice guy and was attracting some talented players, but did not seem to utilize them effectively and seemed to have real trouble exciting Hawkeye Nation. There were certainly other factors (tightening economy, later night games, player transfers) but he did not seem capable of effectively reacting to them.

My point is that Fran inherited a mess. Most people recognize that. I'd love for Fran to get top players interested again in coming to Iowa but I don't think that's going to happen right away. It's going to be a long slog, and we need to be prepared for that.

[hawkeye12345]

You're right, he was only here for 8 yrs but it felt like an eternity. We did make the NCAAs three times under him which is what I put in my original post but I was too lazy to look it up at the time.

What top 5 recruiting class?

Neal showed up in 2004.

The 99 class sucked with Fermino, Griffin and Hogan
The 00 class may have been his best with Worley, Scott and Reiner being top 100 players along with Recker and Evans being top JUCO players. That was his only class that could have been ranked in the top 25 during his tenure at Iowa but top 5? I didn't think JUCO players factored into the rankings?
The 01 class had PP and Sommerville

[CAARHawk]

JHHawk : I don't know which way I go about the graduating senior classes in the Big Ten. It does seem to open the door. But it also might be a problem in that other teams will be recruiting to fill classes as well. Almost might be better if their rosters were full.

We'll see.

[CAARHawk]

Originally Posted by hawkeye12345

You're right, he was only here for 8 yrs but it felt like an eternity. We did make the NCAAs three times under him which is what I put in my original post but I was too lazy to look it up at the time.

What top 5 recruiting class?

Neal showed up in 2004.

The 99 class sucked with Fermino, Griffin and Hogan
The 00 class may have been his best with Worley, Scott and Reiner being top 100 players along with Recker and Evans being top JUCO players. That was his only class that could have been ranked in the top 25 during his tenure at Iowa but top 5? I didn't think JUCO players factored into the rankings?
The 01 class had PP and Sommerville

Not positive about Top 5, but I know it was considered Top 10 at least. I was at Iowa at the time. We were excited.

[Cydkar]

I believe it was a top 5 class according to at least one ranking.

[IAJay]

Originally Posted by hawkeye12345

You're right, he was only here for 8 yrs but it felt like an eternity. We did make the NCAAs three times under him which is what I put in my original post but I was too lazy to look it up at the time.

What top 5 recruiting class?

Neal showed up in 2004.

The 99 class sucked with Fermino, Griffin and Hogan
The 00 class may have been his best with Worley, Scott and Reiner being top 100 players along with Recker and Evans being top JUCO players. That was his only class that could have been ranked in the top 25 during his tenure at Iowa but top 5? I didn't think JUCO players factored into the rankings?
The 01 class had PP and Sommerville

Why would Juco's and transfers not count in recruiting classes?

[CAARHawk]

If Luke wouldn't have gotten hurt that team would have been a lot different. Reggie was a freaking beast down low. I keep saying this is the type of playing FM should be focusing on.

Why go head to head with guys in better position to get the top high school talent? Go out and find a Juco beast to come in and control the front court.

Technically, that was Alford's second class. But it was the first one in which he had a full cycle to recruit. This is the same place FM is at right now and where my research seems to show the coaches who turn programs around normally make their mark.

I am not a fan of Alford, but I think we all should realize that if Pierre doesn't melt down like he did, Alford's level of success at Iowa would be quite different.

[1977Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by tweeterhawk

Lickliter seemed to be a nice guy and was attracting some talented players

Nice guy, yes, but I can't agree with the "attracting talented players" part. Lickliter was only getting commitments from 2-3 star players, most of which had NO offers from any program higher than the mid-major level. Either that, or they were players who were essentially being told they would be on the bench if they did not transfer (Brommer & Bawinkel). Lickliter lost most every recruiting battle where there were any other major conferences involved, even lower-tier teams like PSU.

I hate to say it, but we are as devoid of talent right now as I have ever seen an Iowa team, worse than when Alford was here, without a doubt. We have a couple of solid players, yes, but not nearly enough. Maybe I'm underselling some other players on the roster, but they have another chance to prove themselves this year. If they improve, then great.

No, I don't think we'll be getting the 4-5 star types of players right now, but we need to be able to at least recruit solid players that can be coached up into All-Big Ten candidates like the way Dr. Tom did it. We don't need NBA lottery types of recruits, we just need good, solid Big Ten Calibur players. I don't think a bunch of mid-major types of players is going to cut it.

I agree it's way to early to throw Fran under the bus since he has not even coached a game yet, or had time to recruit a full class. But if it starts looking like we are only getting the players nobody else wants, then I will start to grow a little concerned about the recruiting. There's no evidence of that yet, so let's not panic. Let's see how Fran's first full class looks first.

[1977Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by CAARHawk

If Luke wouldn't have gotten hurt that team would have been a lot different. Reggie was a freaking beast down low. I keep saying this is the type of playing FM should be focusing on.

Why go head to head with guys in better position to get the top high school talent? Go out and find a Juco beast to come in and control the front court.

Technically, that was Alford's second class. But it was the first one in which he had a full cycle to recruit. This is the same place FM is at right now and where my research seems to show the coaches who turn programs around normally make their mark.

I am not a fan of Alford, but I think we all should realize that if Pierre doesn't melt down like he did, Alford's level of success at Iowa would be quite different.

If memory serves, Alford's "Top 5" class was recruited right around the time his first year started, because I remember Dick Vitale talking about how much Alford had cleaned up in recruiting during the Iowa/Uconn game in year 1. The top 5/top 10 class didn't get to campus until year 2. So McCaffery technically has had time to sign a big class, if Alford could do it in time to get those players on campus by year 2. BUT.. Alford also walked into a situation where the previous year's team had lots of graduation, so there must have been plenty of schollies available to use. I don't think Fran has that same luxury. We also can't overlook the fact that we had just gone to the Sweet 16 when Alford was hired, and Fran is walking into a mess.

[tweeterhawk]

Originally Posted by 1977Hawkeye

Nice guy, yes, but I can't agree with the "attracting talented players" part.

Two-time national champion Billy Donovan apparently saw something in Cody Larson -- some would call it talent. Similarly, Bo "The Vulture" Ryan, second-most winningest coach to Roy Williams among coaches with more than 500 wins, and most winningest Big Ten coach, apparently felt Ben Brust had something to offer.

I agree the talent level on the current team is at the lowest I can ever remember. Fran has a lot of work ahead to bring it back up.

[sportstalent]

Originally Posted by hawkeye12345

Are you serious? alford couldn't recruit his way out of a wet paper bag....it was Noodles that could recruit and he wasn't at Iowa early enough to save alfords job.

alford was at Iowa for 10 yrs....10 Mother F'ing Years!!!!!!!! And we made it to the NCAA's twice or was it three times? What makes you think that we would have made it more than 20% of the time going forward? alford and NEAL did a great job of going in to a midmajor and hiring an asst. out of Houston that brought some real nice 3 star and one 4 star players with him. He also took D Gary from Iowa. When you play in a midmajor, one or two players can make a HUGE difference during the regular season but look at his lack of success in the tournaments. In 2008 (1st yr) the team went 24-9 but lost in the 1st round of the NIT. In 2009, the team went 22-12 and lost in the 2nd round of the NIT. Last year, the team went 30-5 and still lost in the 2nd round of the NCAAs. That's a ton of success for a midmajor but almost meaningless to a major conference program.

Please stop bringing that clown up or I'm going to have a frickin heart attack.

Thank you, you are spot on...the only thing that was left behind was a broken program and Iowa hired the wrong coach to replace him. Not a bad coach, just the wrong type, Iowa needed someone who was a proven builder, not one that could step in and continue in a good program because Iowa was fooled by believing it had a "good" program in place. Iowa has many issues exposed when they started losing and it didn't happen overnight.