Compare the impact of Woodbury/Gesell to Horner/Brunner as freshmen.

[1977Hawkeye]

Basabe averaged 11 ppg and 6.8 rpg last year as a freshmen, over an entire year. I don't see why Woodbury can't do 7 & 5.

That said, yes, I understand that Woody & Gesell will both be freshmen and players develop at different rates. Especially at various positions.

But we're talking about a Top 50 recruit in Woodbury, yes? Or at least Top 100? I just don't see 7 & 5 as that crazy of a goal.

[tailgater371]

I loved Horner and Bruner, but help me remember, what was their rankings out of highschool? Why is it expected that Woodbury and Gesell can't/won't match or exceed them? Were they that highly ranked?

[1977Hawkeye]

I loved Horner and Bruner, but help me remember, what was their rankings out of highschool? Why is it expected that Woodbury and Gesell can't/won't match or exceed them? Were they that highly ranked?

I believe both Horner & Brunner were both 4* recruits, both Top 100. Just like Woodbury & Gesell. Similar production wouldn't surprise me.

But thinking more long-term, I remember the team that Horner & Brunner had as seniors - 25 wins and a 3 seed in the tournament. If W&G turn into anything near as good, Iowa Hoops should be fine in a few years, provided they are surrounded with other solid players.

[JHHawk]

Rivals rankings for Woody(43),Gesell(89)
RSCI (composite) rankings for Brunner(50),Horner (58), Haluska(62).
RSCI ranking for Leonard (29), Zeller(12).

I think so much of the numbers these frosh put up depends on playing time,and the talent around them.

Horner and Brunner got good minutes on a somewhat depleted (injuries,suspensions) Hawkeye team.

Leonard was behind a senior center in Tisdale,but clearly Leonard was lacking Big Ten strength last year.
Zeller is bigger,more ready than Leonard,and has no real competition for center at IU.
Woody is more Leonard than Zeller as his ranking indicates,and will have some competition for center minutes with Gabe a sophmore.
Gesell will have a free run at pg,with only Clemmons to battle for minutes,unless Marble is considered a candidate.

So,I think Gesell might put up some numbers but they are joining a team that has Marble,McCabe,May,Melsahn,White,Oglesby and Gabe back. Those guys have all scored double figures in games at times this year already,so points might be very spread out again next year....but Gesell could average 7 pts and 4 assts,and be very good.

[Thawki]

I wasn't quite sure what to expect from Brunner when he entered his freshman year, although he was a top 50 player when final rankings came out, I believe. With Horner, though, I personally felt like we would get out of him what we did his freshman year. I was not surprised in the least.

He had been around the block on the AAU circuit against national competition as the floor general (a difference from Bru, who was also on that team and played quite well) of a very good AAU team. Based upon what guys like Horner would typically do in that environment there was a reasonable expectation of his freshman year.

I believe the same can be extrapolated for Gesell, within reason. I believe his statistics will be slightly better than Horner's as a frosh, and his impact at least as good.

I am not quite so sure about Woodbury. Per Jon's comments above, I think he is a little bit more of an uncertainty. That being said, I will go out on a limb and say I am not sure why a reasonable expectation from him wouldn't be seven points and five rebounds at minimum, as well as a significant impact on defense.

[sportstalent]

They will have lesser numbers because they are going to be on a solid team, actually, I think Iowa will have a chance to be an NIT team next year.
It doesn't have to do with W/G, it has to do with the whole class and with Marble and Basabe back, the bulk of the scoring should go to them with a whole bunch of solid role players like: White, Oglesby, McCabe, Olaseni. Look the only position that has to outperform the current roster is PG, the C position needs to step up, but with the combination of Woodbury/Olaseni, it will not get worse. Iowa's new bigs need to play hard, rebound and alter shots.
The Iowa team will be a team next season, the only real hole will be a proven swing player behind Marble, another wing player that can get to the rim. Maybe Ingram will provide that, but it will be imperative for Iowa to address that position with the 2013 class, both scholarships.

[big10fan]

I wasn't quite sure what to expect from Brunner when he entered his freshman year, although he was a top 50 player when final rankings came out, I believe. With Horner, though, I personally felt like we would get out of him what we did his freshman year. I was not surprised in the least.

He had been around the block on the AAU circuit against national competition as the floor general (a difference from Bru, who was also on that team and played quite well) of a very good AAU team. Based upon what guys like Horner would typically do in that environment there was a reasonable expectation of his freshman year.

I believe the same can be extrapolated for Gesell, within reason. I believe his statistics will be slightly better than Horner's as a frosh, and his impact at least as good.

I am not quite so sure about Woodbury. Per Jon's comments above, I think he is a little bit more of an uncertainty. That being said, I will go out on a limb and say I am not sure why a reasonable expectation from him wouldn't be seven points and five rebounds at minimum, as well as a significant impact on defense.

wow, what a well thought out and coherent post! what are you doing here?
good thoughts, couldn't have said it better myself.

[herbyhawk]

Woodbury will not be alone in the center position
Olaseni 6'11 and Meyer 6'10 will be there to help
and contray to a few Marble will be the SG and White will be the SF
i still stand by next years lineup of

pg Gesell 6'2
sg Marble 6'6
sf White 6'8
pf Basabe 6'7
c Woodbury 7'1
that is a very solid lineup
2nd string if you will looks like this

pg Clemmons 6'1
sg Oglesby 6'5; Ingram 6'3
sf May 6'5
pf McCabe 6'7; Meyer 6'10
c Olaseni 6'11

that gives us much better quality depth than i have seen in years
the best news is that May is the only senior
the 2013-14 season will be the year of a run in the NCAA's
Basabe, Marble and McCabe will be seniors and the Woodbury class will be sophamores

[sportstalent]

I will stick with the lineup of: Gesell, Oglesby, Marble, Basabe and Woodbury

Oglesby is too good to keep on the bench and Marble has plenty enough skill to keep up with the best players in the BIG at the 3-spot.

Also, with Gessel, Oglesby and Marble on the floor all at once, it gives Iowa a great passing team as well.

Two deep:
Clemmons
Ingram
White
Meyer/McCabe
Meyer/Olaseni

I know May is going to get all the chances he can, but the simple fact is Iowa has over-recruited him with this class and White is developing very nicely with a much better skill set. I just don't see him getting much playing time at the expense of better players.

[RocknRollface]

Basabe averaged 11 ppg and 6.8 rpg last year as a freshmen, over an entire year. I don't see why Woodbury can't do 7 & 5.

That said, yes, I understand that Woody & Gesell will both be freshmen and players develop at different rates. Especially at various positions.

But we're talking about a Top 50 recruit in Woodbury, yes? Or at least Top 100? I just don't see 7 & 5 as that crazy of a goal.

Wow, That is almost word for word what I was going to say.

Basabe was very raw and still managed those numbers.

Woodbury is a top 50 player people. MVP of the nba camp so the ranking is based on allot more than potential. This is the opposite of a project.

Ive not seen him play but that ranking and calibur of award at 7'1 should indicate someone who is ready to step in, start and average close to 10 and 8.

[GhostofBTT]

I am glad someone else brings up Meyers Leonard when focusing expectations for Woodbury. Don't just look at Leonard's numbers last year, and presume that it was just because he was sitting behind a senior. He looked BAD quite a bit last season; he was pushed around, unagressive, and often getting stupid fouls.

There is a very real chance that Woodbury looks like this next year. Leonard was a top 20 recruit, but he had never played a real game against grown men, and they didn't care about his ranking. Woodbury is going to take the same lumps, and we won't have much to fall back on.

Of course, Leonard learned from it, and is now one of the best players in the Big 10...

[imported_Tmoney12]

I am glad someone else brings up Meyers Leonard when focusing expectations for Woodbury. Don't just look at Leonard's numbers last year, and presume that it was just because he was sitting behind a senior. He looked BAD quite a bit last season; he was pushed around, unagressive, and often getting stupid fouls. There is a very real chance that Woodbury looks like this next year. Leonard was a top 20 recruit, but he had never played a real game against grown men, and they didn't care about his ranking. Woodbury is going to take the same lumps, and we won't have much to fall back on.Of course, Leonard learned from it, and is now one of the best players in the Big 10...

I just hope we dont see people trashing and giving up on Woody when he struggles. I am sure it will happen thou.

[ICHAWK]

I just hope we dont see people trashing and giving up on Woody when he struggles. I am sure it will happen thou.

I expect him to Struggle. He just does not look that strong really in the clips I have seen. He will have bigger stronger guys pushing him in the post compared to what he has seen in High School and AAU ball.

He has a great skill set to buil on obviously as you are not ranked as high as him in the recruiting world by accident. I just hope he surprises me and is a bigger factor as a freshmen than I expect.

I hope his break out year is is sophomore year. He will have been on campus for over a year and will have had some time in the weight room and gotten used to the increased challenges of playing college ball.

[imported_Tmoney12]

I just hope we dont see people trashing and giving up on Woody when he struggles. I am sure it will happen thou.

I expect him to Struggle. He just does not look that strong really in the clips I have seen. He will have bigger stronger guys pushing him in the post compared to what he has seen in High School and AAU ball.He has a great skill set to buil on obviously as you are not ranked as high as him in the recruiting world by accident. I just hope he surprises me and is a bigger factor as a freshmen than I expect.I hope his break out year is is sophomore year. He will have been on campus for over a year and will have had some time in the weight room and gotten used to the increased challenges of playing college ball.

Totally agree. But we know how bi-polar Iowa fans are. If he isnt putting up 10 and 8 he will be labeled a bust.

[herbyhawk]

i don't think the AAU kids are all that skinny or weak
they don't invite the sisters of the poor to the Top 100 NBA camp
and i wouldn't call a 7'1 245 lb senior in HS skinny
the only thing that has been posted in the school stats is his weakness in FT shooting
35% ft shooting last year
49% ft shooting last year
but ft shooting can be worked on
one other thing Zeller of indiana at 6'11 220 lbs, seems to be doing just fine and i find it hard to see a 220 lb's center pushing a 245 lb's center around