Nick Toon before McNutt????

[tm3308]

Ok then please explain to my what makes Nick Toon a better NFL prospect than McNutt since you seem so full of knowledge. McNutt is just as fast, taller, larger hands and I didn't look at Toon's college stats but I have a hard time believing that his stats trump Marvin's. Marvin is a great blocker, he has great blockout capability, great hands, and a good guy to have in the locker room. Since you're so good at telling us why Marvin should not be picked by an NFL team, explain to us why Nick Toon should or why Nick Toon is a better pick.

I'm not going to say he does or doesn't, because I don't know, but perhaps Toon has better separation skills? That'd be a deal-maker in a straight up comparison of McNutt and Toon.

And it's hardly fair to compare stats. Wisconsin passed a more this year, but Toon also missed time. And before this year, Iowa could have looked like the Patriots next to Wisconsin.

[sergeanthulka]

I actually have a bigger beef w/Devier Posey being picked so high. Dude dropped as many balls as he caught and -- iirc -- had quite a few character issues along the way, as well...

[iahawks912]

I actually have a bigger beef w/Devier Posey being picked so high. Dude dropped as many balls as he caught and -- iirc -- had quite a few character issues along the way, as well...

This is a great point I didnt even think about this... what a joke.

[HawkPhreek]

I get it that we are all Iowa fans but McNutt is not that good of a wide out. Everyone needs to relax he got drafted very good for him

[TChawk]

I get it that we are all Iowa fans but McNutt is not that good of a wide out. Everyone needs to relax he got drafted very good for him

Not that giod of a wide out...are you a joke?

[Billso]

Speed is a must and that's def not his strong point. Its actually not a huge shock to see him fall this much.

Speed compared to whom? Several high-round WRs are faster than Marvin, but the following players drafted ahead of him had the same or SLOWER 40 times, and all of them had slower 20-yd-shuttle times (McNutt's was among the best at the combine):

Wright (1st round)
Quick (2)
Randle (2)
Posey (3)
Sanu (3)
Adams (4)
Toon (4)
Childs (4)
Coale (5)
Criner (5)
Cunningham (6)

Marvin also tied for the largest hands. Plainly speed was NOT the problem. I lean more towards the separation issues, but McNutt has obvious upside there given his relative lack of experience. NFL drafters are conservative about that sort of thing, preferring to go with what they can see on tape (the bird in hand). I anticipate barring injury that McNutt will do very well in the league, and look forward to throwing this thread in the face of a few people...

[RocknRollface]

Speed compared to whom? Several high-round WRs are faster than Marvin, but the following players drafted ahead of him had the same or SLOWER 40 times, and all of them had slower 20-yd-shuttle times (McNutt's was among the best at the combine):

Wright (1st round)
Quick (2)
Randle (2)
Posey (3)
Sanu (3)
Adams (4)
Toon (4)
Childs (4)
Coale (5)
Criner (5)
Cunningham (6)

Marvin also tied for the largest hands. Plainly speed was NOT the problem. I lean more towards the separation issues, but McNutt has obvious upside there given his relative lack of experience. NFL drafters are conservative about that sort of thing, preferring to go with what they can see on tape (the bird in hand). I anticipate barring injury that McNutt will do very well in the league, and look forward to throwing this thread in the face of a few people...

Thank you for doing the research that backs up my point. Lack of speed is a figment of Iowa fans imagination despite that fact that the numbers almost always say otherwise.

NFL evaluators are always right other than the thousands of times they are wrong.

[hogeye]

Speed compared to whom? Several high-round WRs are faster than Marvin, but the following players drafted ahead of him had the same or SLOWER 40 times, and all of them had slower 20-yd-shuttle times (McNutt's was among the best at the combine):

Wright (1st round)
Quick (2)
Randle (2)
Posey (3)
Sanu (3)
Adams (4)
Toon (4)
Childs (4)
Coale (5)
Criner (5)
Cunningham (6)

Marvin also tied for the largest hands. Plainly speed was NOT the problem. I lean more towards the separation issues, but McNutt has obvious upside there given his relative lack of experience. NFL drafters are conservative about that sort of thing, preferring to go with what they can see on tape (the bird in hand). I anticipate barring injury that McNutt will do very well in the league, and look forward to throwing this thread in the face of a few people...

Toon and McNutt had the same 40 time, so that's being a bit disingenuous. Also, a number of those WR's didn't run the shuttle, which is also misleading based on your statement.

For the measurable stats available Toon and McNutt were remarkably similar, which were 40 time and vertical.

At any rate, regardless of stats...people have to remember that the draft isn't just about measurables, so taking the stats from the Combine and lining them up based on where people got drafted is a narrow-minded approach to evaluating it.

[Billso]

Toon and McNutt had the same 40 time, so that's being a bit disingenuous.

Reading comprehension fail.

I said "the following players drafted ahead of him had the same or slower 40 times..."

[hogeye]

Reading comprehension fail.

I said "the following players drafted ahead of him had the same or slower 40 times..."

I didn't fail, I know exactly what it said and that's exactly my point. You are coming off as being critical about guys that had the SAME 40 time, that's ridiculous.

I then went on to point out that not all guys did all of the drills either and that in general it wasn't a fair overall response you were giving.

[olivecourt]

If you go read any of McNutt's evaluations without black and gold glasses on, it's pretty clear why he fell. Teams don't see him as a number 1, stretch the field-type receiver. They don't see him as a shifty slot guy. They don't see him as a second/third receiver that can also return kicks. Those all seem like reasonable evaluations to me.

So the knock on Marvin isn't that he's a bad receiver, by any stretch. It's just that he doesn't necessarily fit what teams see as their prototypical receiver needs. They're going to take chances on guys who they think could develop into those roles even if that didn't produce what McNutt did in college.

There's no conspiracy, anti-Iowa bias, or anti-Big Ten bias. I hope McNutt outplays his draft position, as many receivers have done before him. But I understand why he fell to where he did.

[DuffMan]

Reading comprehension fail.I said "the following players drafted ahead of him had the same or slower 40 times..."

I didn't fail, I know exactly what it said and that's exactly my point. You are coming off as being critical about guys that had the SAME 40 time, that's ridiculous. I then went on to point out that not all guys did all of the drills either and that in general it wasn't a fair overall response you were giving.

he's not comming off that way at all.

[hogeye]

he's not comming off that way at all.

You're right, calling players slower is a compliment.

[HomerChampless]

Comparing Toon's and McNutt's stats would be legitimate if they were being drafted for the same position..
Toon will be a TE and McNutt will be a slot receiver. Heck, to be successful in the NFL, maybe McNutt will eventually become a TE.

Using the stat comparison, Toon is an elite TE and McNutt is more of an average WR.

McNutt's stone fingers might have adversely effected his draft position. I say might have because Clayborn didn't drop after a poor sack season in 2010.

[Billso]

I didn't fail, I know exactly what it said and that's exactly my point. You are coming off as being critical about guys that had the SAME 40 time, that's ridiculous.

No, you totally failed, and now compound your fail by entirely missing the point of my post. Which was to point out McNutt IS NOT SLOWER than many of the draftees in front of him, and therefore speed was not the primary problem with his draft order, as claimed. I criticized no player, quite the opposite.

I then went on to point out that not all guys did all of the drills either and that in general it wasn't a fair overall response you were giving.

Irrelevant to my point that McNutt IS NOT SLOWER than many of the draftees in front of him. Still true even if the handful of guys who didn't do drills turned out to be faster.