CBS: Doyel & Dodd want Penn State to pay

[DexterMorgan]

I think this is exactly the job of the NCAA. Lack of institutional control, all the way up to the top, to save a reputation, and an football team. To save a reputation and a football team over the lives of several young men.

I'm sure if this cover up wouldn't have happened, and this had come out sooner, PSU would still be as competitive on the field.

Level playing field indeed. Sounds like something out of a liberal newspaper.

While it's certainly a lack on institutional control legally, morally and in many ways, it's not in the definition the NCAA uses.

[atomicblue224]

YOU guys keep talking about the university the people who runs it like its a casual story, you fail to see the whole picture children were sexually assaulted and abused over period of 15 years or longer. Penn state were responsible to report criminal matters involving minors right away. The key word is HUMANE, thats what emails between officers and the coach choose to do, proves that the Penn State and Jerry Standusky are guilty of crimes because they thought sexual matters involved with minors are JUST MINOR IN THEIR MINDS...
I honestly don`t care what NCAA `s punishments are...I don`t care if Jerry Standusky are in prison. Victims are here to grow up with permanent scars and nightmares and PSTD everyday of their life. No amounts of money and punishments would ever make that pains go away .....

[atxhawk]

Here's a question for those of you that think the NCAA will step in here. If they step in here for the moral and ethical violations that occurred at PSU, should they step in at Arkansas also? He was using university and personal funds to support his mistress, which is ethically wrong, especially in the religious south. Granted, the scope of his indiscretions are nowhere near the scope of what happened at PSU, but it does fall under the very general category of upholding the ethics of the NCAA. Yeah, I'm using the slippery slope argument here unfortunately. As I stated before there is no clear cut, defined rule violation by PSU here. There is perjury, child molestation, cover ups, and plenty of moral wrongdoings, but none of those are defined in the NCAA rulebook, but are covered in civil and criminal law. The LOIC is going to be extremely difficult to prove. The powers in charge all knew what was going on, and they were in control. Their control was completely morally wrong, but they were still in control.

The NCAA may try and penalize PSU due to pressure from the media, but I highly doubt they would be able to get anything to stick if PSU took them to arbitration or into a court room to get an injunction filed. I can definitely see something like that happening. I can also see the NCAA trying to rewrite the rules so if something like this happens in the future there will be something in place for them to punish the offending program.

Mind you, I'm in no way supporting the cover up in the athletic department or what any of the offending parties did. I'm hoping they all get punished to the fullest extent of civil, criminal, and prison law. I would like to see the NCAA be able to hand down some sort of punishment on anybody that was involved, like a lifetime coaching ban. I just can't see them being able to do so with their current rules.

I do not feel that it is right to punish any of the players for things they had no control over, or may have had any knowledge of. Now if players knew about it, and were informed to look the other way, then that's a different story and we go back to the civil, criminal, and prison law.

[ChosenChildren]

The stupid, bungling NCAA needs to stay out of this one. This one is a lot bigger than that archaic organization. This case is going to involve further criminal proceedings, huge civil lawsuits, etc. etc. It will involve Pennsylvania government authorities, the federal government, etc. etc. Penn State (and by implication the State of Pennsylvania) will be defending hundreds of millions in lawsuits.

The NCAA needs to shut up and let the courts handle it.

[DexterMorgan]

YOU guys keep talking about the university the people who runs it like its a casual story, you fail to see the whole picture children were sexually assaulted and abused over period of 15 years or longer. Penn state were responsible to report criminal matters involving minors right away. The key word is HUMANE, thats what emails between officers and the coach choose to do, proves that the Penn State and Jerry Standusky are guilty of crimes because they thought sexual matters involved with minors are JUST MINOR IN THEIR MINDS...
I honestly don`t care what NCAA `s punishments are...I don`t care if Jerry Standusky are in prison. Victims are here to grow up with permanent scars and nightmares and PSTD everyday of their life. No amounts of money and punishments would ever make that pains go away .....

Oh please, get off your high horse. Everyone understands the disgusting nature of the crimes that took place. This thread is specifically about NCAA sanctions.

[DwayneTwill]

YOU guys keep talking about the university the people who runs it like its a casual story, you fail to see the whole picture children were sexually assaulted and abused over period of 15 years or longer. Penn state were responsible to report criminal matters involving minors right away. The key word is HUMANE, thats what emails between officers and the coach choose to do, proves that the Penn State and Jerry Standusky are guilty of crimes because they thought sexual matters involved with minors are JUST MINOR IN THEIR MINDS...
I honestly don`t care what NCAA `s punishments are...I don`t care if Jerry Standusky are in prison. Victims are here to grow up with permanent scars and nightmares and PSTD everyday of their life. No amounts of money and punishments would ever make that pains go away .....

Who's saying that's NOT the case?

[HawkeyesWin]

Here's a question for those of you that think the NCAA will step in here. If they step in here for the moral and ethical violations that occurred at PSU, should they step in at Arkansas also? He was using university and personal funds to support his mistress,

Arkansas acted when it came to there attention. PSU helped to perpetuate the rape of little boys.

[cmhawks99]

Where is the outrage for the people at the 2nd Mile Charity? They seem to be getting a pass in all this. I think we are jumping the gun on all of this a bit, as we still do not know what Paterno recommended.

Did PSU screw this up- absolutely, but this is such a horrible situation I am sure they would be raked over the coals no matter how they handled this. How was Sandusky allowed to continue to exist in the 2nd Mile after the investigation in 1998? Why is no one asking that question? IMO what they did or failed to do is 100x worse than anything Penn State did or failed to do. This creep set up a charity to give himself access to disadvantaged children and take advantage of them in horrible, horrible ways. I hope there is a "miscommunication" in the prison system and this ******* is left in the general population for an hour or two.

Yea I agree with this…..there are plenty of rotten actions to go around on this deal. Honestly this charity harbored and abetted a know pedophile the way it seems to me…..And I don’t think the NCAA wants anything to do with this and quite frankly the legal system will handle this just fine.

[atxhawk]

Arkansas acted when it came to there attention. PSU helped to perpetuate the rape of little boys.

But until he crashed his motorcycle with her on it they were unaware of what he was doing and therefore you could say they had lack of institutional control. So while Arkansas acted ethically after they discovered the incident they were still not in control of what was going on before. This is where the lack of any sort of written and documented rules by the NCAA are going to make it difficult.

[tm3308]

Except it does.

How? The cover-up is not within the NCAA's purview. Their concern is with athletics, and the fair play thereof. They are not the moral or criminal police, nor should they be.

[HawkeyesWin]

Arkansas acted when it came to there attention. PSU helped to perpetuate the rape of little boys.

But until he crashed his motorcycle with her on it they were unaware of what he was doing and therefore you could say they had lack of institutional control. So while Arkansas acted ethically after they discovered the incident they were still not in control of what was going on before. This is where the lack of any sort of written and documented rules by the NCAA are going to make it difficult.

I don't think it is reasonable for any institution to have complete control over all is resources nor do i think that should be the standard for LOIC to be charged.

I think there is something far worse than the LOIC tag on this whole situation. They had control and supported/enabled child rape.

[Golfer]

How? The cover-up is not within the NCAA's purview. Their concern is with athletics, and the fair play thereof. They are not the moral or criminal police, nor should they be.

This was originally in context to your statement that NCAA recruiting isn't an anti-trust issue, not the PSU coverup. It has been argued exactly the opposite. Unsuccessfully by a UK football coach. It will eventually be argued successfully. Already has been argued successfully, albeit in a different context, by women athletes against the NCAA, and by assistant coached when the NCAA wanted salary caps. Recruiting will eventually be argued successfully. When it is a big enough issue, and there is the political will.

With respect to the coverup. The US DOE is looking into this. It is also a federal issue.

[silvanthalas]

Where is the outrage for the people at the 2nd Mile Charity?

Their turn will come, as it will for the trustees and the state's sitting governor.

[atxhawk]

I don't think it is reasonable for any institution to have complete control over all is resources nor do i think that should be the standard for LOIC to be charged.

I think there is something far worse than the LOIC tag on this whole situation. They had control and supported/enabled child rape.

Exactly my point in this situation. There is no current basis for what is/isn't LOIC in a situation like this or what is/isn't ethical and moral. Because of that the NCAA will have a difficult if not impossible time trying to enforce any sort of punishment in this case. I think most of us would like to see the PSU football program get punished in some way because of this, but the current rules are just too broad to try and nail anything down on them.

[DexterMorgan]

Exactly my point in this situation. There is no current basis for what is/isn't LOIC in a situation like this or what is/isn't ethical and moral. Because of that the NCAA will have a difficult if not impossible time trying to enforce any sort of punishment in this case. I think most of us would like to see the PSU football program get punished in some way because of this, but the current rules are just too broad to try and nail anything down on them.

The rules actually aren't too broad. LOIC explicitly relates to a violation of an NCAA rule. Since (to my knowledge) no NCAA rules were violated, I don't see how the NCAA can levy the LOIC charge.

Institutional control refers to the efforts institutions make to comply with NCAA legislation and to detect and investigate violations that do occur. NCAA member institutions are obligated to maintain appropriate levels of institutional control.

Charging - NCAA.org

EDIT: Also

A lack of institutional control is found when the Committee on Infractions determines that major violations occurred and the institution failed to display:
Adequate compliance measures.
Appropriate education on those compliance measures.
Sufficient monitoring to ensure the compliance measures are followed.
Swift action upon learning of a violation.