Cubs are saving money for a change

**Travisam** · 11-02-2011, 08:02 AM

Originally Posted by HawkeyeMike23

Ramirez will have plenty of teams after him. He's a top 5 third baseman in the MLB.

He's not top 5 but he's pretty good. He's brutal defensively. Longoria, Beltre, Youklis, Sandoval, Young, ARod, Zimmerman are all better than him as overall players.

**hawkfarmer** · 11-02-2011, 08:11 AM

Ramirez will get a 3 year deal for at least 12/year, but it won't be with the cubs. he is the best FA 3B by a long shot. The cubs don't need that contract working against them for another three years. Ramirez is not a cornerstone to a championship team, but he is a nice plug player for a team with other solid players.

**thejumper5** · 11-02-2011, 08:22 AM

Originally Posted by Clark

One player I'd love for the Cubs to target is Grady Sizemore. I'd put him in left field because there is less injury risk there and hope he turns into the player everyone thought he would be a couple years ago.

He'd be much cheaper than any of the big FA's and buying low on a guy with that kind of talent is a smart strategy for a team that isn't planning on contending. If he plays well and the Cubs still aren't contending, he's a valuable trade piece. If he doesn't, it didn't really cost you that much.

I like Sizemore a lot. I think if he can stay healthy, he would be a quality right fielder for the Cubs. An added bonus would be that if he can still play center and the season goes south, the Cubs would have him as insurance and could shop Byrd for much-needed prospects. I don't think he will be too expensive (he made $8M last year and is expected to take a pay cut) for a guy that is only 28 and is a potential all-star when healthy. I think the Cubs should go after him, but I generally expect free agents to prefer staying in the league they already played in, an expectation that puts the Cubs at a disadvantage.

**bogeyman** · 11-02-2011, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by tm3308

Winner. I still think the Cubs might go after Fielder, but overall, slashing the payroll is what the Cubs need. Get rid of as many of the bad contracts as possible so that we can move on.

Agreed. The Cubs for my lifetime have never had a plan or figured out what it takes to be consistently competitive. The new ownership gets it and just give them some time. They are investing in the right things - Player Development, Latin America Facilities, the Draft and good execs. If you get these areas going in the right direction and then combine it with the Cubs Financial power, they could/should own the division! I like the direction they are heading! I do think we'll suck next year and we just need to hang tight, other than Fielder there isn't much I'd be interested in this year for Free Agents. But withing 2-3 years I think we'll see progression and lots of new young talent coming through the ranks.

Now, far as Ramirez... Great play by the new staff because by offering him the option now we get a high draft pick back as compensation if he leaves via free agency. So we basically shed a large contract for an aging player and get a first round pick to infuse more talent into the system. Great move!

**hawkfarmer** · 11-02-2011, 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by bogeyman

Agreed. The Cubs for my lifetime have never had a plan or figured out what it takes to be consistently competitive. The new ownership gets it and just give them some time. They are investing in the right things - Player Development, Latin America Facilities, the Draft and good execs. If you get these areas going in the right direction and then combine it with the Cubs Financial power, they could/should own the division! I like the direction they are heading! I do think we'll suck next year and we just need to hang tight, other than Fielder there isn't much I'd be interested in this year for Free Agents. But withing 2-3 years I think we'll see progression and lots of new young talent coming through the ranks.

Now, far as Ramirez... Great play by the new staff because by offering him the option now we get a high draft pick back as compensation if he leaves via free agency. So we basically shed a large contract for an aging player and get a first round pick to infuse more talent into the system. Great move!

Cubs will only get a second round pick as Ramirez is a class B FA. the 2010 season screwed that up.

**JonDMiller** · 11-02-2011, 09:06 AM

Spending money because you have it can screw you in the long term. The ARam situation is a good thing for the Cubs.

Don't go spend that money on AAAA players or .270 hitters. They have way too many holes to fill to compete next year and they won't be able to do it. So build for the long haul.

**hawkfarmer** · 11-02-2011, 09:07 AM

Originally Posted by JonDMiller

Spending money because you have it can screw you in the long term. The ARam situation is a good thing for the Cubs.

Don't go spend that money on AAAA players or .270 hitters. They have way too many holes to fill to compete next year and they won't be able to do it. So build for the long haul.

Exactly what I've said, and what the cubs have done for years. You can get that FA when you have a good solid foundation built and your farm system can give you enough players.

**Section136** · 11-02-2011, 09:51 AM

Pretty good read here on McLeod. Im absolutely thrilled with everything I have read about the Theo/Hoyer/McLeod trio.

McLeod to change Cubs' draft philosophy - Chicago Cubs Blog - ESPN Chicago

**ssckelley** · 11-02-2011, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by JonDMiller

Spending money because you have it can screw you in the long term.

Not if you go after small term contracts. You can throw big money at a player but make him hit performance gates in order to lock in an extra year or fill it with club options. There are many ways to spend money without screwing yourself long term.

Don't go spend that money on AAAA players or .270 hitters. They have way too many holes to fill to compete next year and they won't be able to do it. So build for the long haul.

This is why you might see Epstein make more trades than picking up free agents. He has been known to make trades for veteran players that are in their final year of their contract just to get the compensation picks when they leave. You fill a spot short term, use some of your payroll, and in the end still build for the future. I am sure this is a big reason why they picked up Ramirez's option, not only did it save them 2 million but it got them a compensation pick.

**hawkfarmer** · 11-02-2011, 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by ssckelley

Not if you go after small term contracts. You can throw big money at a player but make him hit performance gates in order to lock in an extra year or fill it with club options. There are many ways to spend money without screwing yourself long term.

This is why you might see Epstein make more trades than picking up free agents. He has been known to make trades for veteran players that are in their final year of their contract just to get the compensation picks when they leave. You fill a spot short term, use some of your payroll, and in the end still build for the future. I am sure this is a big reason why they picked up Ramirez's option, not only did it save them 2 million but it got them a compensation pick.

Who are they going to trade? The only prospects people want are the ones the cubs are unwilling to give away?

**9YRPLAN** · 11-02-2011, 10:24 AM

the cubs draft philosophy has actually yielded good results for a couple years now.

**ssckelley** · 11-02-2011, 10:25 AM

idk hawkfarmer, honestly I have not put much thought to it but he has been known to make deals like this. I think the Cubs still have some value in Marmol & Soto. I thought I read somewhere the Mets could be interested in Marmol, perhaps a deal for David Wright. Wright only has 1 year left on his contract and a club option for 2013.

**hawkfarmer** · 11-02-2011, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by ssckelley

idk hawkfarmer, honestly I have not put much thought to it but he has been known to make deals like this. I think the Cubs still have some value in Marmol & Soto. I thought I read somewhere the Mets could be interested in Marmol, perhaps a deal for David Wright. Wright only has 1 year left on his contract and a club option for 2013.

Valid point. I can see him being a possible trade prospect. I think potential for trade is:

Byrd
Marmol
Marshall
Soto
Barney
Baker

that's about it

I think Cashner will end up in the bullpen and he may have closer stuff.

I heard a rumor about a Soriano for Vernon Wells trade. I'm for it. Both bad contracts, but a change of scenery could help both.

**DJL** · 11-02-2011, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by hawkfarmer

Who are they going to trade? The only prospects people want are the ones the cubs are unwilling to give away?

I agree with this. I wonder if the philosophy have having so many "untouchable" guys will change. We have had guys they we would never trade away like Felix Pie, and Corey Patterson. Every year someone was willing to give us something great in return. After they are a bust (Patterson did have one or two solid years) they get traded for much less. You could say that the organization has issues developing talent, or it could simply be that the talent scouting is poor. I'm excited to see if this new front office can find the next Petroia or Ellsbury instead of the next Bobby Hill or Gary Scott. In all fairness, Castro is already pretty darn good, but that had little to nothing to do with the Cubs ability to "develop" players.