"There's really no true loyalty in sports."

**hawkdrummer1** · 07-09-2012, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by BryceC

Actually ISU is a pretty good example - averaged 55k+ in the 70s when they were good, gradually dwindled down to almost nothing in the 90s (I would know, I went to some games then) and now has some semblance of a decent fanbase again with some increased success.

What fantasy world are you living in? (a cardinal and gold colored one no doubt)

Cyclone stadium had a capacity of 42,500 until 1976, then it was enlarged to 48,000. So you're telling me they sold out and also sold 12,500 SRO tickets for every game.... (7,000 SRO after 1976). How bout a reality check.

They've only had crowds of 55K five times in history (perhaps 7 including last year's Iowa and OSU games), and NONE of them were in the 70s. So not only did they not average anywere near 55K in their "heyday" they didn't even have a single game...where the attendance was over 55,000 during that period.

(Iowa by comparison averaged over 50,000 in the 70s with lousy teams)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Trice_Stadium

Scorpio79 · 07-09-2012, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by hawkdrummer1

What fantasy world are you living in? (a cardinal and gold colored one no doubt)

Cyclone stadium had a capacity of 42,500 until 1976, then it was enlarged to 48,000. So you're telling me they sold out and also sold 12,500 SRO tickets for every game.... (7,000 SRO after 1976). How bout a reality check.

They've only had crowds of 55K five times in history (perhaps 7 including last year's Iowa and OSU games), and NONE of them were in the 70s. So not only did they not average anywere near 55K in their "heyday" they didn't even have a single game...where the attendance was over 55,000 during that period.

(Iowa by comparison averaged over 50,000 in the 70s with lousy teams)

Jack Trice Stadium - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Drummer brought it heavy.
B-rice just got

**HawkeyeMike23** · 07-09-2012, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by tm3308

That's not true loyalty. Both sides are acting selfishly in the scenario you just described (perhaps that sounds a little harsh, but it's true). True loyalty is what LeBron, A-Rod, etc., failed to do. As mentioned, Chipper is a good example of a guy who could have easily chased greener pastures (and found them), yet chose to stay in Atlanta. Dirk is a good example in the NBA.

There are others, though there are fewer and fewer all the time. It's a business, and there's really nothing wrong with accepting that. But that doesn't mean it isn't refreshing to see guys like Chipper out there. There's a very good reason he's one of the most beloved players of his generation, regardless of the team he plays for (He's my favorite active player, even as a die-hard Cubs fan. He's my second-favorite player all-time behind Junior). We like to see guys do things the old fashioned way.

Is this serious? Larry played for a team that won division titles his first 12 years with them. What a hero for sticking it out during those dark days, by the time the Braves weren't winning the title he was already on the down side of his career.

**BryceC** · 07-09-2012, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by hawkdrummer1

What fantasy world are you living in? (a cardinal and gold colored one no doubt)

Cyclone stadium had a capacity of 42,500 until 1976, then it was enlarged to 48,000. So you're telling me they sold out and also sold 12,500 SRO tickets for every game.... (7,000 SRO after 1976). How bout a reality check.

They've only had crowds of 55K five times in history (perhaps 7 including last year's Iowa and OSU games), and NONE of them were in the 70s. So not only did they not average anywere near 55K in their "heyday" they didn't even have a single game...where the attendance was over 55,000 during that period.

(Iowa by comparison averaged over 50,000 in the 70s with lousy teams)

Jack Trice Stadium - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My bad, 50+. How does this change my point at all? My point was that there was a lot of interest when they won, there was little interest after 15+ years of sucking, and now there is interest again now that we have experience some level of success. I didn't remember the exact numbers, I just remembered it was greater than it was for 20~ years until the 2000s.

**Foval21** · 07-09-2012, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by HawkeyeMike23

Originally Posted by tm3308

That's not true loyalty. Both sides are acting selfishly in the scenario you just described (perhaps that sounds a little harsh, but it's true). True loyalty is what LeBron, A-Rod, etc., failed to do. As mentioned, Chipper is a good example of a guy who could have easily chased greener pastures (and found them), yet chose to stay in Atlanta. Dirk is a good example in the NBA. There are others, though there are fewer and fewer all the time. It's a business, and there's really nothing wrong with accepting that. But that doesn't mean it isn't refreshing to see guys like Chipper out there. There's a very good reason he's one of the most beloved players of his generation, regardless of the team he plays for (He's my favorite active player, even as a die-hard Cubs fan. He's my second-favorite player all-time behind Junior). We like to see guys do things the old fashioned way.

Is this serious? Larry played for a team that won division titles his first 12 years with them. What a hero for sticking it out during those dark days, by the time the Braves weren't winning the title he was already on the down side of his career.

chipper was offered major money by the yankees to leave. remember while chipper was winning consistently it wasnt like the yankees witha ws title every 5 yrs. he would win in the regular season and then lose in the playoffs. that could wear on anyone. obviously he wasnt with a bad team but he could have left for more money. atlanta for all the winning they had done recently doesnt have the deepest pockets.

**tm3308** · 07-09-2012, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by HawkeyeMike23

Is this serious? Larry played for a team that won division titles his first 12 years with them. What a hero for sticking it out during those dark days, by the time the Braves weren't winning the title he was already on the down side of his career.

I didn't mean more on-field success when I said greener pastures. But he could have easily gone someplace like New York and gotten a ridiculous amount of money, plus more on-field success.

As for the fact that by the time the Braves weren't winning the division, Chipper was on the downside of his career: Have you looked at the NBA? Garnett and Allen went ring chasing when they signed with Boston, and Allen is doing it again now. Karl Malone and Gary Payton did it when they signed with the Lakers. Malone's situation is pretty similar to Chipper's. He had a great deal of team success, but ran into a dynasty when it came to getting a ring (Bulls/Yankees).

**thejumper5** · 07-09-2012, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by Foval21

chipper was offered major money by the yankees to leave. remember while chipper was winning consistently it wasnt like the yankees witha ws title every 5 yrs. he would win in the regular season and then lose in the playoffs. that could wear on anyone. obviously he wasnt with a bad team but he could have left for more money. atlanta for all the winning they had done recently doesnt have the deepest pockets.

Chipper was never offered anything by the Yankees. He signed extensions before his contract expired each time he was set to be a FA, in 2000, 2005, and 2009.

Braves Contracts

**ssckelley** · 07-09-2012, 03:09 PM

The Braves took good care of Chipper Jones throughout his career, even signing him to multiple year deals when he was well past his prime. By the time it is over the Braves will have paid Chipper over 150 million for his HOF career.

**DwayneTwill** · 07-09-2012, 03:10 PM

agree.

**tm3308** · 07-09-2012, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by ssckelley

The Braves took good care of Chipper Jones throughout his career, even signing him to multiple year deals when he was well past his prime. By the time it is over the Braves will have paid Chipper over 150 million for his HOF career.

Chipper has obviously made plenty of bank over his career. And the Braves continuing to give him extensions beyond his prime is an example of a team staying loyal to a guy who gave them everything he had.

But the Yankees could have given him a lot more money than what the Braves could have.

**iapunk** · 07-09-2012, 03:34 PM

Because they are sports teams and we follow them we think there should be some kind of loyalty but to them they are jobs. How many of us 35+ year olds haven't changed jobs? I worked for the same company all through high school and college then after graduating college (a total of 18 years) but when I had an offer to increase my salary by 40% with more vacation somewhere else I took it.

On the other end of it, we all know of people with many years in at their jobs that have been walked out and had their jobs eliminated or taken by younger, less expensive people.

Loyalty isn't just scarce in sports, it's hard to find everywhere.

**bcl20** · 07-10-2012, 03:27 AM

Loyalty to non-friends and family is overrated.

**SECisCRAP** · 07-10-2012, 08:19 AM

Originally Posted by thejumper5

-Steve Nash in a Sportscenter interview that aired today.

Do you agree or disagree? Why?

Not really all athletes seem they just want to make as much money as possible which isn't suprising.

Scorpio79 · 07-10-2012, 08:21 AM

Tork, you need to learn when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em.
You took a beating up in here, administered by three dudes. Time to say "uncle".

**Hawkeye27** · 07-10-2012, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by Scorpio79

Pro sports are businesses, for all involved. Why else would so many lawyers (agents) be associated with teh pros if it weren't all about money?
If you want loyalty, adopt a dog.

That about sums it up in my opinion as well. College and high school level is a lot different to me, but college is starting to shift a bit, with players leaving, or being bought off out of highschool.