Foul Trouble - Bring It On!

Discussion in 'Basketball' started by MelroseHawkins, Jun 21, 2017.

  1. MelroseHawkins

    MelroseHawkins Well-Known Member

    There are advantages and disadvantages with having so many players worthy of playing time. The disadvantage is finding the balance of playing time for all while finding a consistency in play. The more players a team has the longer it can take to find a mixture of players or rotation that gels.

    One key advantage of having many worthy players or a large rotation as it can allow a team MANY fouls, which will allow them to play more aggressively on defense. This point should not be lost. If a team has fouls to give because have so many quality players, this allows them to be extra physical on shots or on defense in general.

    In addition, if done correctly, a loaded team can really tire out and put pressure on an opponent if they have a shorter rotation, say 8-9 players. You can push your team hard and give players ample rests when needed. You can also afford to be the more physical team which may get into the head of the opponent wearing them down both mentally and physically.

    So, there are advantages with having so many bodies. The challenge is finding them all minutes to keep them and finding consistency with the players gelling on the court.
     
    thedukeofearl likes this.
  2. Hawk5656

    Hawk5656 Well-Known Member

    Maybe it's just me but I don't want to send an opposing team to the FT line all game.
     
    thedukeofearl likes this.
  3. MelroseHawkins

    MelroseHawkins Well-Known Member

    Yea, valid point if they are a great FT shooting team. Wouldn't be on every play but a team can afford to be more aggressive, is the point. I think FT% has really gotten worse over the years as players just don't practice or concentrate on that as much, but correct, you don't want the other team to get extra 25 pt's either.

    If you know a certain player sucks at FT like the opponent's 4 or 5 player, then get physical with him. That's my point.
     
  4. ibahawkeye

    ibahawkeye Well-Known Member

    I think I agree. We will have to play aggressive and when it comes to a situation of giving up a basket or making them earn the points at the line, you make them earn it at the line because foul trouble shouldn't hurt with the depth.
     
    thedukeofearl likes this.
  5. MelroseHawkins

    MelroseHawkins Well-Known Member

    Yea, I'm not saying just go out and hack everyone on a shot, but a team can play more loose or aggressive knowing there are fouls to spread across a team. That's my point.
     
    thedukeofearl likes this.
  6. PCHawk

    PCHawk Well-Known Member

    Our bigs need to be sprinting down the floor every time to. That's the best way to keep guys like Haas from being a major factor. Keep him tired.
     
    thedukeofearl likes this.
  7. NikeHawk21

    NikeHawk21 Well-Known Member

    I just don't think playing 11/12 guys is sustainable in college basketball. We have options if foul trouble arises, as we did last year with Kriener and Uhl.

    How Fran gets down to a more manageable 9/10 man rotation I do not know. Going to be some tough decisions to make for sure.
     
  8. BigD

    BigD Well-Known Member

    Seems like MSU type of thinking. I like it.
     
  9. BGOLD

    BGOLD Well-Known Member

    IMO Fran doesn't allow guys to play aggressive on defense because he'll sit you the entire half if you pick up 2 fouls, and you're done until the 10 minute mark if you get 3. It's the dumbest philosophy that most coaches have abandoned.
    Tyler Cook last year picked up 2 cheap fouls in the opening minutes of the first, sat out the last 17 minutes of the half. Picks up his 3rd foul in the opening minute of the 2nd half and sat until there was under 10 left. Cook ended the game with 3 fouls and played something like 10-15 minutes the entire game. WORST CASE SCENARIO if Cook played the entire game he would have fouled out with 10 minutes in the first half and missed the exact same number of minutes as Fran sat him on the bench. Trust your players and don't sit your best players for 30 minutes while they end the game with 3 fouls.
    Players don't want to contest shots in the lane and play aggressively if they know they're going to be sat on the bench if a whistle is called.
     
  10. Hawk5656

    Hawk5656 Well-Known Member

    I think we're going to play 11 guys this year, I wish it was down to 8 or 9 but I just don't see it happening
     
  11. MelroseHawkins

    MelroseHawkins Well-Known Member


    I agree. Back in the day it used to be when a player picked up his 3rd the first half. A team loaded with players, I think you should go back to this. I guy sitting so long is not really in the flow of the game anyway, and I think you are actually getting less out of him trying to hide a foul than you are letting him play.
     
  12. MelroseHawkins

    MelroseHawkins Well-Known Member


    Me to.
     
  13. NikeHawk21

    NikeHawk21 Well-Known Member

    I agree it will probably be 11. What's interesting is it seems like everyone believes Garza and Nunge will be part of that 11. That would likely leave a senior Uhl, whose played his first three years, out of the rotation. While that's an easy thing to say on a message board, that will likely be a much tougher decision for Fran to make.
     
  14. PCHawk

    PCHawk Well-Known Member

    I hate when someone is on fire and get sat down because of a foul. Just because you're hot with 10 minutes left doesn't mean you will still be hot with 2 minutes left. It's a waste of a hot streak.

    Also I would rather use my good players to try to put the game away before the last few minutes than save my good players and put them into a close game late, cold off the bench. Playing your good players as many minutes as possible is better than playing them fewer minutes and having them available late. Especially when you factor in the chances that they won't foul out anyway. I'm with you, I hate the strategy.
     
  15. Hawk5656

    Hawk5656 Well-Known Member

    Uhl will be part of the 11 unfortunately. 11 is too many but Fran is too loyal to some of his players
     
    tksirius likes this.
  16. Hawkfnntn

    Hawkfnntn Well-Known Member

    Totally agree. Let him play through it. I understand having trust in the depth of the other players but lets get real here. Cook is the best front court player they had last yr. Sitting him like that took is what took him out of the game not his fouls. Let him learn how to play with them and try and learn how to play with refs that call it tighter. He didn't even work up a sweat that game. If he does end up fouling out so what? That wouldn't be the end of the world necessarily. I'd rather he play 28-33 mins and foul out than play 17 mins and not foul out and be ineffective due to not being able to get in the flow of the game. I totally agree with where you going with your post
     
  17. Hawkfnntn

    Hawkfnntn Well-Known Member

    I think Uhl won't be playing nearly as many meaningful mins. Cook, Pemsl, Kriener, Garza, Nunge, Baer all should be in front of him rotation wise not necessarily in that order I gave but I'd rather see them all play over him. But your right much like Ellingson I think he has a bit of infinity for Uhl and it'll be interesting to see how much they play over the more talented guys.
     
  18. trj

    trj Well-Known Member

    Not really worried about this. It will play itself out. There is a core group of about 5-7 guys that have to play well most nights for Iowa to be successful.

    For example, there will be nights where Ellingson can give you 15 minutes and other nights he may only play 5 minutes based simply on matchups. We don't know what the learning curve will be like for Garza/Nunge they could be ready immediately or it could be mid February.

    You have 7-8 guys ready from day one and 3-4 guys where you will have to figure it out as you go along. It is a good problem to have.
     
    thedukeofearl likes this.
  19. trj

    trj Well-Known Member


    Trying to think of a counter argument to this and I got nothin.....It really does come down to trusting your players. Especially, a year like this past one where you could afford to let them play through it.
     
    thedukeofearl likes this.
  20. PCHawk

    PCHawk Well-Known Member

    The argument is you want your guys to play hard without worrying about fouling out. If they have two fouls early, they will play passive on the court. A passive player isn't a good thing. At first, that logic makes sense. The thing is, if you see them playing passive, you pull them for playing passive. Don't pull them until they prove they can't handle the situation. Play hard and smart until you foul out. That's the best way to maximize minutes for your best players. The idea to sit them so they don't foul out and have to sit doesn't make much sense.
     
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