If You Really Want to Know What's Going on With IA Football

Discussion in 'Football' started by 1hawkeye1, Jun 27, 2020 at 7:19 AM.

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  1. 1hawkeye1

    1hawkeye1 Well-Known Member

    I don't know about you. But I once visited this site multiple times a day. I now cringe when I even think about clicking the link. My once beloved HawkeyeNation.com has been dragged down into the political muck.

    If you want to know what happened specifically with Iowa football and what is happening now to correct things, then you need to listen to the latest Washed Up Walkons podcast. James Daniels and Jordan Lomax tell you exactly what happened. They name names. Hard questions get asked and answered.

    I felt a LOT better about Iowa football after listening to it. James Daniels says in the podcast that he is done talking about it to the media now. So if you want to hear from some of the guys at ground zero, this is your last chance.
  2. carneyhawk

    carneyhawk Active Member

    How about a link to the podcast you mention??
  3. RobHowe

    RobHowe Administrator

    It's worth listening to it. James Daniels and Jordan Lomax did a great job even though it sounds, at times, like they're being interrogated/on trial. I would have liked to hear more of them and less from the three hosts. Seemed like too many voices with five people on a podcast.
  4. MikeyLikesIowa

    MikeyLikesIowa Well-Known Member

    I can't link it, but I've found the best and (fastest) way to listen is with the Google Podcast app. They typically post their podcasts on YouTube after a week or so.

    I've already got this one (episode 125) downloaded and plan to listen Sunday during our long drive back home from Nebraska (visiting family again). Needless to say, I'm very anxious to hear what was said.
  5. Fryowa

    Fryowa Well-Known Member

    For what it’s worth, @RobHowe said he’s going to lock all those threads Monday morning and only allow it on designated threads, and also that even on those threads it has to pertain to Hawkeye sports.

    That, in my mind, is the best solution. That way the political folks can go to those threads and ski pole each other, and if one wants to participate they can. The rest of the board should be normal again hopefully.
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  6. CP87

    CP87 Well-Known Member

    Really, Daniels was the one receiving a bit of interrogation, primarily because he was one of the loud voices in bringing this to everyone's attention.

    There were 2 main areas that the hosts asked pretty pointed questions about:

    1) Do you think Twitter was the right avenue to bring these issues to the coaches' attention? (or more accurately, justify the way this went down).

    2) Explain, exactly, how Iowa culture is not compatible with black culture?

    It was clear both the hosts and the guests were dancing around things, afraid to fully speak their minds. Things loosened up as it went on.

    To the first question above, Daniels believes the public forum of twitter was the right avenue to address this. He did not clearly articulate why. He insinuated that he had engaged in prior conversations, with KF and Barta, about what needed to be changed, and some things were changed, but not enough. He also stated that specific complaints about Doyle were not mentioned in these meetings with KF and Barta; rather they focused on things like dress code and weightroom music. Later it was revealed that much of that hesitancy stemmed from the perceived tight bond between KF and Doyle, and how they felt KF would not be receptive to that criticism. What I read from this is players had serious concerns, but they did not feel comfortable discussing the heavy stuff, so they stuck to the more superficial stuff.

    I think Daniels could formulate a much better response to this if he were to sit down and write out why this was the best approach. It is always a challenge to organize your thoughts when speaking off the cuff, especially in a setting where you are asked to justify your actions to people you know don't agree with you. A few things he mentioned that seem important is that he was having conversations with MANY black players and they were all reporting the same experiences. Many of the specific incidents that were discussed were never even brought to the public light. Also, as part of Chicago Bears OTAs Daniels had been having discussions about these things with his teammates, and he knew it was a big issue in all realms, and he knew he wanted to make a public statement that could influence change. Remember, his initial statement was just that IF Iowa decided to kneel as a team, that would have a positive influence on Iowa culture. He and other players did not start coming out with more specific criticisms until fans on twitter were going at them to provide specific examples of what their perceived shortcomings in Iowa culture were.

    One justification for taking the public route which he did not mention, but I think should be considered, is the voice this has given to players around the country. That positive change would not have happened if Iowa had kept this all in-house.

    There was also difficulty in getting a specific answer on the 2nd question, with a lot of initial talking past one another. Lomax was such a steadying presence throughout this podcast, often times bridging the gap between where Daniels was at and where the hosts were at. The reasons were likely twofold: he is older and more experienced, and he experienced the transition from a predominantly black culture to a predominantly white culture (Catholic high school) well before he got to Iowa, so it was an easier transition for him. Others experienced this transition when they first set foot on campus at Iowa, and when this coincided with their first summer conditioning program with Doyle, along with the beginning of their academic careers, it was extremely taxing.

    When addressing black culture and its compatibility with Iowa culture, Daniels kept coming back to superficial things like dress-code and music, but Lomax really laid it out there. It is about Iowa coaches respecting where their players are from, and trying to understand them. There can still be an culture of hardwork and accountability, but the understanding needs to go both ways. Without that, the perception of the treatment is different. White players and black players may very well have been treated the same, but if the white players felt understood and appreciated, and the black players did not, then the perception of that treatment would understandably differ.

    If these exact same guys came back to this exact same conversation after a week to consider these topics further, I think the result would be even more elucidating, and I think the understanding between the 5 of them would improve. I am very happy that Daniels and Lomax were willing to voice their minority point of view, knowing they (particularly Daniels) have already caught much flak for the things they have said. It would be great to hear them in a different context as well when they could lead the discussion, as opposed to only reacting to WUW host questions.

    Bottom line, they all felt confident that KF was up to the challenge of leading this positive reformation, none of them thought any more coaches needed to be replaced (though I wonder if in a different forum Daniels' opinion might have wavered, he seemed a bit more hesitant on this question than Lomax), and all of them are Hawkeye through and through.
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  7. HawkGold

    HawkGold Well-Known Member

    So we can get ski poled by you on Hawkeye threads?
  8. Fryowa

    Fryowa Well-Known Member

    Kluver and Kulick are just a couple of meatheads, Ward seems to be a whole lot more intelligent and thoughtful.

    Kluver/Kulick are a couple of walking Jason Aldean bro songs with their minds made up, and you can tell it from the get go on the pod cast.

    Daniels and Lomax would have been a MUCH better interview on almost any other podcast/host than WUW, or just Ward by himself. You can tell the other two dominate 100% of the conversation and Ward holds back to go along with it.
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2020 at 11:22 AM
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  9. CP87

    CP87 Well-Known Member

    Kulick and Kluver are both very bright. I have had more personal interactions with Kulick, and he is every bit as intense and unfiltered as you would expect, but there is a lot under the surface that he occasionally shows, including a little bit during this podcast. In particular, he has opened up about the mental health struggles he had at Iowa, and how Brian Ferentz helped him to make it through.

    From this podcast and episode 123, I would say Kulick in general is more sympathetic to player complaints than Ward is, primarily because he faced more Doyle-related bumps in the road than the other two. Ward has a slightly different perspective because he was a captain and on the leadership committee, so he has generally been a bit more defensive because he feels like it was the culture that he helped to shape that is under attack.

    In short, I would caution against snap judgement of these guys based upon the personas you see/hear on the podcast.
  10. RobHowe

    RobHowe Administrator

    IMO, the necessary changes don't happen if Daniels and the other players took it to KF directly. There needed to be public pressure because KF and Doyle were too close for the head coach to discipline or change his right hand man. That's my opinion. And the former players who I communicated with and told their stories felt the same way.

    James Daniels met with Barta more than a year ago about the issues. Nothing was done.

    Doyle's workout sent 13 players to the hospital and KF created an award for Doyle less than six months later.

    KF's hand had to be forced here. And you could hear Ward admit to that at the end of this podcast after being pretty adamant that the players should have kept it in-house on an earlier podcast.

    It was also interesting to hear all five guys call into question some of the voting for captains and other honors that were done by the players. The players who ended up captains and on leadership committees did not add up from their informal tabulations on how each other voted.
    Fryowa, SmokeTownHawk and CP87 like this.
  11. uihawk82

    uihawk82 Well-Known Member

    Voting fraud in the locker room. Maybe they need to go to mail in ballots to the Johnson County Auditor Office. but really if they didnt stick with the actual votes for assigning captains, awards, etc then that is low, cheesy, lame etc
  12. CP87

    CP87 Well-Known Member

    Daniels also stated that he didn't bring any of the specific Doyle accusations to KF or Barta, it is possible that those complaints would have swayed KF (if echoed by dozens of players, as Daniels says). Or it is possible that he still would have written it off; impossible to know. I think the way it went down is more uncomfortable for the coaches and most fans of the program, but it seems to feel liberating to many of the former and current black players. Like you, I don't think the changes would have been as profound if this was kept in-house.
  13. RobHowe

    RobHowe Administrator

    Correct. That's why I made sure to say it was my opinion. That Barta and KF heard complaints, even though they weren't specific to Doyle, and didn't dig deeper, faster, helps me form my opinion. That, and giving Doyle an award shortly after one of his workouts hospitalized 13 players. That was a slap in the face to players and their families.
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  14. Fryowa

    Fryowa Well-Known Member

    You can be extremely bright and still be ignorant. A lot of it is the 24 year old tough guy mentality and being young, but they’re still meat heads.

    As far as Kulick, 1) you apparently don’t follow his twitter feed, and 2) you say I’m not supposed to make personality judgements based on your own personal contact with the guy? I’m sorry, but if you decide to have a public persona like a podcast or whatever, you accept the fact that that’s how you’re going to be judged by the public. And it’s not a snap judgement. According to my podcast app I’ve listened to 87 of them. Don’t honestly expect me or anyone else not to judge the guy by a very public persona that he puts out there just because you’ve had conversations with him in private. If he’s way different in person maybe he shouldn’t put on an act during his podcast

    None of this matters because the dude has implied it should’ve stayed “in-house ” Anyone who thinks a player would have gotten anything done, even one iota, by talking to KF in his office they’re f’n mental. Better yet, ask the players who sat in his office with the door shut what their experiences were like.
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2020 at 1:54 PM
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  15. HawkGold

    HawkGold Well-Known Member

    It was huge when it happened and still huge. Therein Barta on down should go with no thank you's. That was a statement of statements...the award. Is the Award still given>

    Ferentz awards Doyle assistant of the year
    Iowa strength and conditioning coach Chris Doyle watches as the team stretches during the team's open practice and Kids Day event Saturday, Aug. 15, 2009 at Kinnick Stadium in Iowa City. (Brian Ray/The Gazette)

    CLIVE -- Kirk Ferentz first got the idea in late January. The topic was the inaugural assistant coach of the year award.
  16. SmokeTownHawk

    SmokeTownHawk Well-Known Member

    I still have got to wonder what happened when the people who monitor social media in the athletic department brought this news to those in charge? Surely there was opportunity to head this off before everything blew up in their faces. Someone was asleep at the switch, or at least in denial of what was about to happen.
  17. RobHowe

    RobHowe Administrator

    Agree. James Daniels, who already let it be known to the powers that be at Iowa that change was needed, first tweeted at around 8 pm on Wednesday, June 3.

    By the next afternoon, Mike Daniels, Jaleel Johnson, Rafael Eubanks and others were involved on social media. Then on Friday, more stories trickled out.

    By Friday night, it was a runway train. KF released his first public comments on the allegations that night, around 48 hours after the first tweet.

    There was time to minimize the damage in the court of public opinion, and Iowa, as usual when there crises, dropped the ball.
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  18. MikeyLikesIowa

    MikeyLikesIowa Well-Known Member

    I completely forgot about this. IIRC didn't Barta & KF claim that they made their decision to give Doyle that award before the Rhabdo incident?
  19. RobHowe

    RobHowe Administrator

    I think I remember KF saying he decided to do it in January and I think Rhabdo hit in February. My dates could be off.
  20. NCHawker

    NCHawker Well-Known Member


    This white guy decided to just put his narrative down, and listen to what the players are saying. Who the hell am I to tell them how to feel.
    1hawkeye1 likes this.
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