Interesting quote from Stanley at the combine

Discussion in 'Football' started by #1DieHardHawk, Feb 25, 2020.

  1. hawkfan2679

    hawkfan2679 Well-Known Member

    I would respectfully disagree. Pre-practice and indy time are when a QB coach should be working with his QB on technique. The time for executing the offense, reading the defenses, etc. are during film study, during full team, during 7 on 7, during half-field drills, etc. Teaching technique is trying to drill into your QB's head what he needs to do when the "real bullets" start hear it alot with DB's, how they need to "trust their technique". It's the same thing with QB' want to help create that muscle memory that won't let them down when the pressure turns up.

    I would guess that the Iowa staff probably didn't do a lot to tell Nate how to throw the ball, because above the waist he didn't come in with abhorrent technique. They probably worked the footwork moreso, but maybe not the timing of the routes as he's done in his pre-combine workouts (you can see a few vids of those workouts on his coach's Twitter account). Then again, it's pretty easy to time up quick game or down the field stuff when there's no rush/defense. So I don't put too much stock in it...this guy he's working with is a very niche market type role and I don't think it's an indictment of the Iowa staff at all.
  2. GesterHawk

    GesterHawk Well-Known Member

    The coaches are only lowed so much time with the players. There is no coached indy time or pre-practice.
    Ree4 and Hawkboys like this.
  3. Fryowa

    Fryowa Well-Known Member

    There's little to no "indy" time.

    The other thing to understand is that there is an infinite spectrum of types of position coaches and you need to consider the particular one you're dealing with. Ken O'Keefe is not a quarterback. Never played it, and he's an OC first. The QB coach job came about because there were additional spots open, and Brian was the heir apparent. It was a way to get O'Keefe back in the game--he has no quarterback pedigree.

    I'll state it loud and clear, Ken OK is not going to be teaching quarterbacks advanced technique. As I said before, he's an OC type guy and when he's working with Stanley/Petras/Hogan it's about reads and scheme. Not how to work his hips, not how to release the ball, not trajectory. In 2020 those are things that QB camps are for, and the best QBs all--without fail--use them. It isn't 1983 anymore; everything is specialized all the way down to individual OL positions.
    uihawk82 likes this.
  4. SteveGarvey1

    SteveGarvey1 Well-Known Member

    Let's see how wide his base is this year when he throws. I expect at least 3 3/4 feet of width between feet or there will be hell to pay for KOK.
    homes likes this.
  5. MelroseHawkins

    MelroseHawkins Well-Known Member

    I'm kind of here. Some good points were made by others but I have a hard time believing they don't asses and look at it, especially if would have an impact on a QB's or teams success.
  6. ChosenChildren

    ChosenChildren Well-Known Member

    When Stanley had time to throw, he was a very good, clutch QB. Four games come to mind this year:

    1. Iowa state - several clutch throws in the 4th quarter to lead Iowa from behind.
    2. Minnesota - an amazing first half against a very good defense.
    3. Nebraska - game winning drive, making three difficult throws when Iowa absolutely had to have them.
    4. USC - his best game as a Hawkeye in a pressure situation on the west coast against a team with a lot of talent, where Iowa his historically not done well. He led Iowa on 4 long drives during the first 3 quarters when the game was still up for grabs. A fitting end to a great career at Iowa.

    There was a lot of hype around LSU's QB and the new emphasis on lower body throwing mechanics. I'm guessing Iowa will study it and try to implement some of those concepts going forward.

    I thought the major flaw with Stanley over 3 years was his lack of mobility, not his throwing mechanics.
    uihawk82 likes this.
  7. kameltoez102

    kameltoez102 Well-Known Member

    Ding Ding Ding we have a winner. Stanly was great when he had time. If he had no time or had to move around in the pocket all bets were off. At times he made plays and really good throws but others he did not, which has been the mystery of Stanley most of his career. Why could he do things really well one game and then not the next when stressed by similar experiences?

    I think the answer is pretty complicated and has many factors but in my opinion it defines his career as what could have been because in the last three years, Iowa had some chances in games that could have drastically changed their image in the West and in some cases put us in the conference title game with a win

  8. Grady

    Grady Well-Known Member

    KOK as Iowa's QB coach has responsibility for development and play of 3 players out of 85 scholarship players. Key words there being "development" and "3". He's being paid $600,000/yr + to work with 3 players. Those are indisputable facts. The idea that somehow he's responsible only for teaching 'how to read defenses' and 'foot work' because there isn't time to work on any other issues that would help a QB succeed is pure BS. Stanley's comment, while not meant to be, is a strong indictment of KOK. For $600,000 a year, he ought to know just about all there is to know about developing QBs, including mechanics. But if there's something he DOESN'T know, it's incumbent upon him to KNOW what he doesn't know and bring in outside help -- either to teach directly or teach KOK so he can then teach and correct.
    Ian Pike Hammer and tksirius like this.
  9. homes

    homes Well-Known Member

    Yes, at least.
  10. Fryowa

    Fryowa Well-Known Member

    Sorry, but if you think KOK was brought in to teach quarterbacks the nuances of the position you're totally kidding yourself.

    O'Keefe was brought to Iowa as a second OC while Brian makes the transition.

    He's never played QB, never been a QB coach, and has spent his previous P5 experience as an OC.

    He's the highest paid strictly "quarterback coach" in the entire country. If you think Iowa is paying him that kind of bank to work with 3 players you need to pull your head out of the sand. It's a title because they're allowed 10 assistants now, and Co-Offensive Coordinator isn't very endearing to BF.
    Hawkfnntn and Chickenlounge like this.
  11. Grady

    Grady Well-Known Member

    I get your point, but the fact is KOK IS THE ONLY COACH TO SPEND SIGNIFICANT TIME with Iowa's QBs. That's a fact, and that's his PRIMARY responsibility. I frankly don't care if he ever played QB or not -- there are many coaches who coach positions they never played. The point is, it's HIS responsibility as QB coach to develop Iowa QBs, and his alone. Period. There's no one else on staff working 1-on-1 with QBs. No one else responsible. My main point is, if there's something KOK doesn't know about development of QBs, such as mechanics other than footwork, then it's his responsibility to search out people who DO, and then connect that person's knowledge to Iowa's QBs. That what leaders do. Especially those making $600,000 a year.
  12. Hawkfnntn

    Hawkfnntn Well-Known Member

    I wouldn't totally replace KOK necessarily I think he's brought added value in helping BF be an all around OC. But I'm all about adding Tate as well.
  13. tksirius

    tksirius HN's Love Doctor

    KOK was also the QB coach at Iowa when he was the OC.
    Ree4 likes this.
  14. uihawk82

    uihawk82 Well-Known Member

    Big Man camps for Bball centers like Garza, receiver camps, QB camps by Gruden, etc etc, shortstop and inner midfield camps etc etc.

    I have read that most pro golfers who are making some swing changes need thousands of driving range reps to change their muscle memory and it can take months or from season to seasons. I would say a really good QB technique coach might think a QB like Stanley needs to close his shoulders another 10 degrees, or maybe not drop the ball down so low when taking it back to pass, or getting the ball higher and closer to his helmet ear hole.

    We have no idea. And this is better done in a daily camp for a week or two with the expert so that the player can get it down and then go practice it more and more.
  15. SpiderRico

    SpiderRico Well-Known Member

    Well, considering he took a kid from backwoods Wisconsin and turned him into the #2 QB (stats wise) in Iowa history and a probable NFL draft pick, I'd say he has done a pretty good job in his QB Coach duties so far.
    Ree4 likes this.
  16. SteveGarvey1

    SteveGarvey1 Well-Known Member

    Sort of like Chuckie-Jon Gruden is regarded as a QB guru when he's never really coached a QB who has put up great numbers. His one Super Bowl winning team had a game manager, Brad Johnson, at QB so that the team could rely on the great defense they had.
  17. BVHawk95

    BVHawk95 Well-Known Member

    I'm not denying the OC Coach part, but KOK very much does know his QB stuff.

    First of all, he WAS the QB coach for Iowa while he was the OC. Same way Phil Parker is still the DB coach. He has his indy time with the QBs, then assumes OC role once they go to large group stuff.

    He was QB coach for Brad Banks (who raves about how knowledgeable of a coach he is and how much he learned from him), Nathan Chandler, Drew Tate, Ricky Stanzi (was Stanzi's biggest advocate in 2008), the good version of James Vandenberg, and now Nate Stanley.

    Furthermore, not having played QB doesn't exactly disqualify him from coaching it. David Cutcliffe, who turned both Mannings into stellar QBs, didn't even play football past college, and wasn't a QB coach until 14 years into his career when he got to Tennessee.
  18. okeefe4prez

    okeefe4prez Well-Known Member

    Correct. There is just no upside in a college coach messing with a guy's mechanics. Maybe you could theoretically do it in spring ball, but even then, you would probably work on macro offense. You can't do it any time in the fall because if you mess it up and it doesn't get fixed by the time of the first game, you might as well kiss the season goodbye. I don't see how anyone can think the risk/reward could ever work for this scenario. The upside on a guy like Stanley is maybe he hits another 1-2% of his throws. The downside is you mess him up and he becomes a sub 50% passer. It doesn't seem worth it. Seems to me like with the limited coaching time you are way better off working on his reads and progressions because you're way more likely to see tangible results. The guys who can start at the D-1 level all have acceptable mechanics and arm strength as a starting point, but the difference between the ones who can make it and those who can't is in large part driven by their brain, not their arm.
  19. trj

    trj Well-Known Member

    Here we go, NS about ready to run the 40.
  20. trj

    trj Well-Known Member

    Fuck yeah, 4.79 on the first attempt I will take that.