Morehouse Story On Unconscious Bias

Discussion in 'Basketball' started by RobHowe, Feb 26, 2019.

  1. RobHowe

    RobHowe Administrator

    Intent v Impact

  2. SteveGarvey1

    SteveGarvey1 Well-Known Member

    We all have unconscious bias, this is true.

    But the bigger problem here, not to beat a dead horse, is society's inability and unwillingness to take into account context and society's compulsion to impute the worst motives on to people we think disagree with us and our world view. If you disagree with me, you're a rotten person and you hate me or whatever group you believe should be offended.

    Gary Dolphin should have known better to use that term but mostly because of society's propensity to be offended and it's inability or unwillingness to understand why he might have said what he did, as well as most people's unwillingness to forgive.
    thedukeofearl and STILLBUSTER like this.
  3. PawkHawk1

    PawkHawk1 Well-Known Member

    Well done, as always, Marc Morehouse
  4. RobHowe

    RobHowe Administrator

    Here are Tweets in reply to Marc’s article from the father of ‘20 Oskaloosa big man Xavier Foster and his AAU program:

  5. PCHawk

    PCHawk Well-Known Member

    If Dolph chose King Kong because of unconscious bias, are the black people who are offended only offended because of unconscious bias towards white people? It is beyond obvious that it was a compliment. Are some people so blinded because of an unconscious bias towards an idea that all white people are out to get black people that they are incapable of seeing the obvious? Do we need to make black people aware that they have unconscious bias and it is helping to keep up a huge barrier between whites and blacks?
    Ree4, 99topdawg, STILLBUSTER and 3 others like this.
  6. PCHawk

    PCHawk Well-Known Member

    I've always said that the problem with claiming everything is racist is it waters down what it means to be racist and let's the true racists hide among us. Now here we are reading articles that say it's not bad to be racist because we all are. Dangerous road we are going down.
  7. Hawkfnntn

    Hawkfnntn Well-Known Member

    You better stop talking all this common sense... There's no two way streets down racial divides lane...
  8. HaydenHawk56

    HaydenHawk56 Well-Known Member

    Problem is there is no bias here at all. Kong Kong is a fictional character and Gary was using him to describe strength. He did not call the Maryland player a gorilla or used King Kong in the context of a racial slur. It is all about context. This should not even by an issue and we should all be focused on Ohio St. Instead, the U of I powers that be screwed this up big time.
  9. 1977Hawkeye

    1977Hawkeye Well-Known Member

    I agree that all of us (not just white people, either) have preconceived notions and tend to make assumptions about things, etc. It's automatic.

    Although in this case, "unconscious bias" just feels like a convenient way to label anyone GUILTY any time we see fit. Gotta dig a little deeper than that, methinks, to understand the truth of any given situation.
    HaydenHawk56 likes this.
  10. dirtwrap

    dirtwrap Well-Known Member

    So where does all of this end? Please correct me if I am wrong on any of these points, however, I believe we need to look at these instances from a broader view:

    1. All races in world history have been enslaved by others. Black people have been enslaved by white people, black people have been enslaved by black people, white people have been enslaved by white people and white people have been enslaved by black people, and so on and so on and so on. So black people being enslaved by white people in the United States from the late 1700's to the late 1800's is unfortunate and wholly inhuman, but not unique.
    2. The definition of racism is culturally understood to be bias from the white person to the black person. Our culture, media and politics are centered around the notion that racism only goes one way, when, in reality, racism exists among all races toward all races by some people. You cannot label an entire race as racist or not racist when it is an individual thing.
    3. Educators have now changed the reason why our Civil War was fought to that over slavery. That the pure northerners of the union were so disgusted by the injustices of the racist confederate south, and nothing else. That the confederate flag means slavery and the stars and bars represents freedom. When, in reality, the war was fought over money, that the confederates did not feel being part of the United States was fiscally fair due to taxation and trade, and they wanted to LEAVE the union. And dont forget, many of the pure northerners had slaves as well.
    4. Racism in today's culture is politically motivated. As I told my children before the great 2016 election, that after the election no matter who wins you will not see "Black Lives Matter" anymore. Was it because black lives dont matter anymore? Of course not. It was because the movement was started and funded by the liberals in an effort to get people to vote and make decisions based on emotion. It is much easier to control people through emotion than by logic. Look it up and see where the founders of the black lives matter groups are. Yeah, they made a bunch of money and lived on George Soros's houses.
    5. Everyone that is alive today, of any race, did not grow up in a world of slavery, were enslaved, lived with their parents or grandparents that were slaves, thus have no first hand knowledge of slavery. No more than my bavarian ancestors that were enslaved by the Vikings that I know absolutely nothing about, the current black race lives the same way and lives under the same flag with the same laws and rules as the rest of us. One could argue there are more opportunities for minorities with respect to many services, but they are atleast equal.

    I could go on, but my point is that racism is contrived in todays culture. Did it happen historically? Absolutely. Was it right with respect to humanity? Of course not. Was it necessary for the development of this country as well as others as well? Absolutely. So if we want to truly end racism, and this coming from a white male, is to stop talking about it. Stop making it more than it is. Not getting sucked in emotionally to every injustice and trying to label an entire race of people.

    Dolph describing the play of Fernando as that of King Kong is not racist, was not meant to be racist, and anyone who thinks it is racist is probably a racist, because those who are not racist, like me, thought nothing about it when he described him.

    FRANAMANIAC Well-Known Member

    Great article
  12. CP87

    CP87 Well-Known Member

    That is one opinion. Kenyon Murray tweeted out the opposite sentiment. Both worth considering as no one has the right to tell others how they should feel about any given circumstance.

    This is definitely a topic worthy of thoughtful dialogue, and we should all be willing to listen to how others feel about it. I liked the UI professor's notion that the ultimate arbitrators of this situation should be a sampling of African Americans, and I would add it should also include many involved in sports and media to fully appreciate that context, and it should represent a broad range of ages. That would make for a very interesting panel discussion that I think we could all learn from.
  13. CP87

    CP87 Well-Known Member

    But if we only apply racism to the truly horrific stuff, and no one wants to be labeled a truly horrific person, then no one will be willing to be introspective on which aspects of their beliefs/thought processes/actions could bear improvement. The message is, as long as I am not a scum-of-the-earth Klansman, I am A-OK. I think all that professor is trying to say is hey, it's okay to admit we have some biases because that is only way we can work on them. Perhaps we just need to reserve a special word for the horrific kind of racism to which you are referring, like uber-dickhead-racist.

    It is a semantic issue, but sometimes semantics can be important in addressing a complex issue. At that same time that can represent a barrier because fields that study the nitty gritty aspects of such issues often have specific jargon that do not always translate smoothly to a lay population.
    trj likes this.
  14. CP87

    CP87 Well-Known Member

    Speaking of semantics, I am not really comfortable with the term "unconscious bias" in this case because it implies a desire to denigrate blacks, if even subliminally. I don't think there was a tiny, subliminal voice in Dolphin's head saying, "Compare him to a fictional ape beast, we need to keep the black man down." Rather, I think this was a case of cultural ignorance, as Dolphin chose a metaphor with no ill-intent (liminal or subliminal) that happened to be offensive to some because he did not even think about associations.

    And I know you have been arguing vociferously that the only ones that would make those offensive associations are those with racist minds to begin with, but I hope you take Dajuan Foster's tweet above into consideration. Many people come at this issue with very different backgrounds than you or I, and if a black person tells me they find it offensive, I think we should listen to them and try to learn why, even if that is not the prevailing opinion.

    I just don't want to be told by a bunch of white people how I should feel or how black people should feel about this issue. I would much rather hear this from the perspective of the people who were supposedly insulted.
    trj, Ree4 and Xerxes like this.
  15. GotTimDodge

    GotTimDodge Well-Known Member

    Dude, you're not supposed to ask these questions.
    Just let the liberals re-define and dictate language as they see fit.
    dirtwrap likes this.
  16. PCHawk

    PCHawk Well-Known Member

    If we need a new word (which might not be a bad idea) it should be one to describe the people who have unconscious bias, which would be everyone. Let's leave the word racist in place to describe what it has always been meant to describe.
  17. ssckelley

    ssckelley Well-Known Member

    The ole "sticks and stones break my bones but words will never hurt me" concept must be lost in today's society. To go to THIS extreme over a comment that was intended as a compliment is INSANE! There are so many greater issues that are far worse than this, yet here we are starting thread after thread over a comment that had no racial intentions whatsoever.
  18. PCHawk

    PCHawk Well-Known Member

    2 things. First, was Foster offended when he heard it, or did he use hindsight to realize it was offensive? Second, I agree we should listen to why people are offended and decide if we need to change something about ourselves. But I also believe that the people who are offended should listen to the offender to maybe realize there was no reason to be offended in the first place. Wouldn't it be great if both sides wanted to actually meet in the middle? And by both sides, I don't mean blacks and whites.
    CP87 likes this.
  19. RobHowe

    RobHowe Administrator

    For sure. I've seen support for Dolph's comments not being offensive from former Iowa players like Glen Worley, Tevaun Smith, Carl Davis and others.

    Hopefully the topic has opened the minds of some people who otherwise hadn't. It won't penetrate others, as we've witnessed since Friday. And I'm guessing people commenting on this article in this thread aren't even reading it, instead just regurgitating comments they've made the last several days.

    I don't feel I'm in a position to tell black people what they should and shouldn't be offended by. Others are comfortable with it, couching it behind politics, in particular the negative connotations of PC culture run amok or saying King Kong is a fictional character.

    It's intent versus impact.

    As I wrote the other day, I've known Dolph for 22 years. I don't believe he's racist and do believe that his comment was meant as a compliment (INTENT). But that doesn't mean his comment can't be received by some black people as being offensive (IMPACT).

    "Geez, we can't say anything anymore without it hurting someone's feelings" rings hollow with me when compared to the history of how black people have been treated and demeaned, including being compared to animals.
    trj likes this.
  20. PCHawk

    PCHawk Well-Known Member

    The problem is, all races treated each other like crap for so long that hundreds of derogatory terms have been invented. It's hard enough to know all of them. Its literally impossible to instantaneously think of every single connection to a derogatory term while speaking. That's why people do need to try to not be unintentionally bias towards anyone AND people need to try to comprehend the difference between implied and intent.