Moss to Arkansas

Discussion in 'Basketball' started by RobHowe, May 15, 2019.

  1. NikeHawk21

    NikeHawk21 Well-Known Member

    The thing is these guys are basketball players and they want to play in games. With Fran’s philosophy about pulling guys with fouls we’ve never really seen guys try to use their fouls to stop baskets. That’s why you would see Garza and Cook with the old Ole’ defense if they had one foul in the first half.
     
  2. revkev73

    revkev73 Well-Known Member

    Concur. Cook and Moss were talented but were not consistent, were below average defenders, and played like a V8 hitting on 6 cylinders much of the time. Iowa might be worse, but I doubt it. PG is the big watershed position next year. Will it be better?
     
    BigD and 1hawkeye1 like this.
  3. karras

    karras Well-Known Member

    Correct.

    In sports their are personnel losses, and they fall into two categories

    1) Unavoidable (injury, eligibility expiration, academic struggle, family tragedy, character issues)

    2) Avoidable (every other category)

    Considering the popularity of the phrase "razor thin margin for error" here in Hawkeyeland, it is painful knowing how often our revenue programs lose (or just plain waste) talent. I have a hard time believing there isn't a way for Moss or Drew Cook to help us win games.
     
  4. revkev73

    revkev73 Well-Known Member

    Fran's Helter/Skelter substitution tendencies would unsettle most team's lineups, and confidence.

    If he would reward defensive effort, boxing out, helping out, etc. the team would be better.
     
  5. InGoodCo

    InGoodCo Well-Known Member

    Moss was afforded so many opportunities to break through and couldn’t. He started close to 100 games. Drew Cook started at QB, couldn’t beat Stanley, moved to TE, sat behind likely too all timers and is now dealing with injury. I don’t know how you could say either were wasted.
     
  6. echo44

    echo44 Well-Known Member

    The reason Moss transferred is purely his desire to have a career in the pros
    If you have watched him through the years and even listened to the commentary during games, he has the most natural ability and the smoothest flow to his game of all Iowa players. Imagine you are him and his family and you hear all these comments "Moss is the real deal " Moss is a true NBA style player" etc. Yet after three years his game has not significantly improved? I believe he feels with better coaching he has a better chance to develop into a pro player. The same with Cook IMO although he has improved over the years, I believe his true potential could have been significantly greater with better coaching. I do not necessarily think Fran is a bad coach, I just don't think he is the kind of coach that can really develop a player to their full potential. There are many types of coaches. If you gave Fran a group of super top level talented players I believe he could win a national championship. There are some coaches that couldn't no matter how talented their players. Than there are the coaches that can take mediocre talent and develop them and compete at the highest level. That is the kind of coach Iowa needs as we do not start with the greatest talent.
    I think a great example is Iowa football. They do a very good job at competing at a high level with less recruited talent than most teams.

    I base this on watching Iowa basketball over the last several years, Iowa does have some talent yet it seems for most part players never improve from their initial levels. Now look at Peter Jok he significantly improved but had outside coaching and training to help him with his game. I think where players do improve is in their understanding of how to execute in Iowa's offense. There is no question they become better in this regards. they even improve in playing zone defense. I am talking about improvement of the most basic basketball skills such as ball handling and adding dimension to their initial games. I really do believe Fran is an amazing coach but not the kind of coach best suited for Iowa

    .
     
  7. BigD

    BigD Well-Known Member

    Why would anyone expect the point guard to be better? Some freshman coming in and running the point? We all know Fran has seriously struggled at recruiting this position.

    Moss wasn’t all conference by any means but he was one of those guys who could come in and give good minutes. I can only hope that a freshman comes in and really tears it up. If not we can expect a drop in expectations from the season we just had. The point position is so important on both ends of the court. Moss will be missed until someone else steps forward or matured into the position.
     
  8. BigD

    BigD Well-Known Member

    Raveling was probably the best recruiter Iowa has had as head coach in the last fifty years. Lute was probably the best at maximizing TEAM cohesiveness on both ends of the floor. If somehow you could just blend the two together it would be a lot of fun to watch.

    Fran is above average on the offensive side of the court but woeful at instilling or recruiting players that have the ability or desire to play on the defensive end of the court.
     
  9. WindsorHawk

    WindsorHawk Well-Known Member

    Sounds like you’re arguing with yourself. If he can’t recruit a PG then we are lacking there and it really won’t take much to be better. Right?
     
  10. BigD

    BigD Well-Known Member

    Seriously? If Iowa point guards are all fives on a scale of one to ten with ten been the best. Who is going to be better a level five point guard with three seasons under his belt or a level five freshmen with zero experience? An argument could be made that if they are both level five right now then the freshman would actually hold more promise in the future.

    Now we can HOPE that we have a level seven or level eight freshman point guard coming in, then your argument is a legit one. I am hoping that is the case. That would change things a lot.

    We just lost two guards that were anything but spectacular but they did have experience. That’s why I expect a step down from last season and also the loss of Cook will be a drop off in aggressiveness around the offensive basket. However, his shooting abilities from outside of six feet was just sad. Over all offensive ability should actually improve as we should be a stronger shooting team from the vacated four that Cook left.

    Defensive rebounding could also improve from the same vacated four position. At the guard position I just can’t help but shake my head with serious doubts both in offensive penetration and defensive intensity. That been the missing piece for Fran and the cause of not being able to reach the next level.
     
  11. oldhawk12

    oldhawk12 Well-Known Member

    Can we trade red face and his kids along with kirk and all his employed family members to Arkansas for Moss and Bielema (I don’t even care if he’s not coaching there any more as at last report was, he still lived there) along with whomever their current basketball coach is. And I don’t even know who it is or care. However, I would like to see their backup pg thrown in as he would be better than anybody red face has ever recruited in here (bohannon isn’t a pg as he doesn’t pass the ball).
     
  12. revkev73

    revkev73 Well-Known Member

    Quickness added to the PG position with some defensive snark? Those are both + and + improvements, IMHO. Will he get to play enough fighting for time with coach's son (s)? How good he will perhaps be should be interesting.

    Moss liked to shoot. He seldom made others on the court look better, seldom gave teammates better looks, his defense was suspect, half-hearted. He could get hot, at times, but is not a big loss.

    Wieskamp can now be the star with Cook and Moss unable to gobble shots. And Nunge.

    I am hoping to be pleasantly surprised by the new Hawkeyes.
     
    hawkation likes this.
  13. hawkeyebob62

    hawkeyebob62 Well-Known Member

    <<I doubt they will do anything that will hurt the team>>

    I agree with regard to the two sons. It's Big Poppa I worry about vis-a-vis "hurt the team".
     
  14. Northside Hawk

    Northside Hawk Well-Known Member

    Bohannon, who doesn't pass the ball, is about to pass Ronnie Lester for career assists.

    Bohannon is no Lester and never will be. And he may be the worst defensive guard we've had here in decades (which is why Bo Ryan stayed away). He has weaknesses. But passing, or lack of it, is not one of them. He knows how to set up post players and get them the ball where they can do something with it.
     
  15. Fryowa

    Fryowa Well-Known Member

    Moss got tons of PT, how was that a wasted opportunity?

    And Cook...

    The guy got legitimately beat out at two positions, lost time to injury, and has never played a snap of college football. How many different positions do you get to try out for in four years of P5 football? And on top of that, if he's never played in the whole time he's been here, how do you know how much talent he has in the first place? You can't go off of high school performance because there are tons of kids with zero expectations based on high school who come in and fizzle, and vice versa. I'm curious as to what you 're basing Drew Cook not playing as wasted talent. He's never made it past 3rd on the depth chart and last year was 5th deep at his position.
     
  16. Fryowa

    Fryowa Well-Known Member

    Made some adjustments.
     
    vork22 likes this.
  17. Chickenlounge

    Chickenlounge Well-Known Member

    Yes, he doesn't pass the ball, yet he lead the team in assists last year. Crazy how he can do that without passing the ball.

    Can we trade you to CyFan for...well...nobody?
     
    MisterLucky likes this.
  18. WindsorHawk

    WindsorHawk Well-Known Member

    I’m truly not trying to be difficult. But this post also makes no sense. Moss was not a PG. He was a terrible ball handler. That’s one of the reasons he wasn’t in at the end of games. You keep talking PG when our PGs (guys that played PG last year) all return and we add another.
     
  19. Hawknigh

    Hawknigh Well-Known Member


    So, did Desi Sills get bumped by Moss?
     
  20. Robowe

    Robowe Well-Known Member

    Using Minutes Played, the other 3 players (Harris, Joe, and Jones - all guards) led Arkansas last year. Sills was 6th with 17 minutes/game. My guess is Rothstein thinks Moss gets more minutes than Sills (which may not be right).
     
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