My take on late season collapses

Discussion in 'Basketball' started by PCHawk, Feb 28, 2016.

  1. PCHawk

    PCHawk Well-Known Member

    One game isn't a late season collapse.
     
  2. STILLBUSTER

    STILLBUSTER Well-Known Member

    Again, not blaming entirely on coaching but get the sense you're tending to blame most on players. I say there's equal blame - the players' lack of performance, execution, mental toughness, and intent, plus all the inherent obstacles of poor personnel and game management by the coach, both at what seem to be the most untimely of situations during the game.

    I can understand how you might minimize the coaching by making it a relative argument -- the same coach, same strategy, same decisions in January as today, therefore, the only deteriorating variable is the players. I just think that's simplifying to the point of being a bit unfair.

    We all seem to accept that players are expected to have performance slumps and lapses in concentration / intensity due to the fatigue of a grinding season, better scouting by the opponent or the "reversion to the mean" of their true ability. However, especially at this level, I judge the decent coaches from the great coaches based on their skill at being the ones to prepare for and adapt to that inevitable player decline as the season goes on. I look at McCaffrey using the same strategy, game plan, rote substitutions and game management being used now, as was used in January (and really, as has been used since he got here), as being a failure by the coach to adapt. In my opinion, as the paid professional, that's an even worse lapse in performance than the players'
     
  3. WindsorHawk

    WindsorHawk Well-Known Member

    This group of seniors and Fran took us from off the basketball map to being back in the conversation annually. There can't be a perceived "collapse" if we weren't doing something right at some point in the season. We have improved all 5 years under Fran...and the first 3 years with these seniors. Win the next 2 and 2 in the NCAA and it's 6 straight years of improvement.

    I agree with PC that many of our issues relate to the limitations of this particular group of players. But this group still took us from nowhere to being relevant. Fran has used this window of increased attention to upgrade his roster and actually land some better players IMO. The guys he's getting now have skill sets that better fit what Fran wants to do and are better all around players IMO.
     
  4. PCHawk

    PCHawk Well-Known Member


    I don't mean to come off that way. There are definitely things Fran does that bother me. We get on a run and looks like we're gunna put them away, then 4 guys come in off the bench. Mistakes on his part are made that leave games being closer than they should be. I just think with this group of seniors, it doesn't matter what Fran does or what he says, if the game is close, they will find a way to lose 3 out of 4 times.

    I agree with Windsor tho that these seniors were a good class that got us back on the map. They just aren't good at handling pressure. Close games is pressure. Playing as a top 10 team is pressure.
     
  5. HawkeyeWalker

    HawkeyeWalker Well-Known Member

    Agreed.

    Turns out, winning is more fun that losing.
     
  6. BigD

    BigD Well-Known Member

    *Our standing in conference is still above where our recruiting classes are falling. So the coaching isn't a total fail. Now if you want to question the recruiting then you have a legit point. Some seem to think that Iowa City can't bring in dynamic and high talented recruits. George Raveling proved that was not true. Too bad George was poor at "during the game coaching."

    *Our two four star recruits have improved quite a bit since there freshmen year. One of them has started all four years that he has been here. I am most disappointed in him more than any other player. With all his experience he should be doing more offensively. The other showed by his sophomore year he was bound to be a sub-par player offensively but adequate as far as passing skills and defense. The problem is that both players hold the most important positions on the team and need to be contributing more on the offensive side of the ball. They are the team's most vital positions and they should at this point in their careers be MAJOR impact players.

    *This team has got to DITCH the slow down deliberate offense at the end of games. The point guard HAS GOT TO STOP DRIBBLING THE CLOCK AWAY. This allows the opponent to know when the shot is coming. The regular offense should be ran and IN FACT played with a sense of urgency as if they are behind and not a head. This playing NOT TO LOSE instead of PLAYING TO WIN is the difference between the way they are playing now and how they were playing earlier in the season. Good god why can't Fran see this?
     
  7. 1977Hawkeye

    1977Hawkeye Well-Known Member

    I think it depends on the situation.. Up 6 with 4-5 minutes left, you've absolutely got to keep your foot on the pedal. That's only two possessions. Up 10 with 2 to play, I see that as a little different.

    I see teams (not just Iowa) take the air out of the ball WAY too early. It doesn't usually end well, unless you've got so much talent where your guys can just create shots at will. If you wait until 10 or less to start your offense, you're almost guaranteed to end up taking a highly difficult shot.
     
  8. WindsorHawk

    WindsorHawk Well-Known Member

    I would like to see Jok come out with 12 seconds on the clock and get the ball and then everyone clear out. He can drive, pull up for a 2 or pull up for a 3. And he's our best FT shooter it he's fouled. He's not as good of a ball handler so I don't want him with the ball for 30 seconds. But he has a nose for the basket and scoring. Okay...I'm saying he likes to shoot.
     
  9. BigD

    BigD Well-Known Member

    Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  10. BigD

    BigD Well-Known Member

    Makes perfect sense over option "A" which doesn't seem to be working.
     
  11. jjh4hawks01

    jjh4hawks01 Well-Known Member

    It's easy.

    We need to get talent in here that doesn't feel the pressure of the whole state of Iowa when things are going well.

    Players that don't feel "the bubble."
     
  12. Knight78

    Knight78 Well-Known Member

    So how do you propose to prevent the point guard from dribbling the clock away. I was watching the game Sunday, and many other games as well. When it comes down the wire, Mike dribbles and tries to set up teammates.... the only one who makes himself available and actually then takes the shot is Jok. How many times does he pass to an open teammate and then pass it right back? Is that his fault? (Apparently many here think so) And the problem with Jok is that he makes himself available but it's always a difficult pass for Mike to make, e.g. behind Mike so far that he has to contort his body to the point of not being able to pass the ball sharply, if at all.

    When he passes to a teammate who has a wide open look, the teammate HAS to shoot the open shot. Ultimately our players are NOT doing that, they are handing or passing the ball back to Mike. So, you are saying it's his fault that he sets guys up and they don't shoot? And then he gets into a situation that is a late clock drive that gets blocked too often, and that's his fault (again because an open teammate won't shoot earlier when set up)?
     
  13. PCHawk

    PCHawk Well-Known Member

    There is always going to be a point where it's smart to slow down. You can ask 10 different coaches where that point is and probably get 10 different answers. In my opinion, Fran slows down to early. Some coaches would agree with me and some wouldn't.
     
  14. BigD

    BigD Well-Known Member

    My criticism I guess come down to who is calling the offensive play. It appears that they deliberately call a stall kind of offensive play. They are not running their regular offense and then deliberately at about ten seconds or less they run a play. What's left on the clock basically leaves enough for two passes or three at the very most. The defense knows this and can go all out and put on full pressure on the person with the ball which as some have noted causes us to take a poor shot. It is obvious a set play and I personally think Fran is calling it from the bench.

    If your up by over ten points and starting to pull away from the other team why would you slow things down? Go for the jugular and finish the team off. How many games does Iowa have to lose this way before they learn? Slow up, be more cautious, be more deliberate. NOPE, ram it down their throats and finish them off. Turn up the defensive pressure with a full court press. You are pulling away because they are getting tired....... FINISH IT......... NO MERCY!!!!

    By slowing things up you are letting them catch their second wind and not making them work harder. Run your normal offense. The captain of the team sees victory and the momentum and tells his team's mates to move it up one more notch, give that little extra effort, make the passes a little more crisper, make the cuts a little faster, get a little more aggressive on defense and then blow them away. FINISH IT!!!!!!! Those who have hearts of a champion know EXACTLY what I am talkin about.
     
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2016
  15. Hillcrest1981

    Hillcrest1981 Well-Known Member

    It's been a day and I have come back to earth. All I can wish and hope for is a win tomorrow night. Close out this week and win a couple in the Big tourney and we are back to a two seed. All I need to think about is beating IU. Beating Sparty is at the top of my list but beating Indiana is the ideal. Must come from back when the General was there and I despised Bobby Knight. Senior night, should be a boost for this team with 4 seniors starting. I predict we come out hot!:cool:
     
  16. PCHawk

    PCHawk Well-Known Member

    If we could somehow get a share of the title this year, it will be a lot easier for the next team that makes a run. Beating a 37 year streak in a state with no pro sports to care about is a lot of extra pressure that most schools would never feel.
     
  17. BigD

    BigD Well-Known Member

    Lol, please don't remind me. I've been following the Iowa athletics for more than 37 years. Closer to 47 years and counting.............
     
  18. HawkeyeWalker

    HawkeyeWalker Well-Known Member

    ^there's absolutely nothing easy about that. If it is, then about 80% of every team in every conference is failing.
     
  19. PCHawk

    PCHawk Well-Known Member

    There's only 1 successful coach a year. The rest should get their resumes up to date.
     
  20. ryno

    ryno Well-Known Member


    Could not agree more. Have people not watched iowa basketball for the last 30 years? Wide open 3 pointers late in a game has been the norm as long as i can remember. We haven't had enough of 1 on 1 athletes to play man to man consistently, and when guys get tired late in a game, wide open 3's are the result. On the flip side, how many wide open 3's do we shoot? Not near as many, and late in a game we almost NEVER make them consistently. I don't have objective numbers, but watching for over 30 years is a pretty good sample size. From the offensive side, it all comes down to a good point guard who can break people down and dish for an open shot. We have not had that kind of a point guard on a consistent basis, this year being no different.
     
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