Social Issue/Political Discussion Relating to Iowa Football

Discussion in 'Football' started by RobHowe, Jun 29, 2020.

  1. RobHowe

    RobHowe Administrator

    HN is one of the only outlets in the state that didn’t write a story in Wadley today. We posted his statement and UI’s response in this thread.

    Ask ESPN, Yahoo Sports, the Des Moines Register, the Quad City Times, the Chicago Tribune, USA Today, Bleacher Report, the Daily Iowan, 247 Sports and all the other outlets why they didn’t include those Tweets in their Wadley stories today. Again, we didn’t publish a story.
  2. thetrza

    thetrza Well-Known Member

    I used to to phonebanking for political campaigns going back several decades. It was sweet, we would just eat pizza and make phone calls all day long. Anyway, we would mark done a guy like Rob as "undecided", then call him back a couple days later.
  3. Bordone

    Bordone Well-Known Member

    I don't really think it's up to a bunch of yahoo's on a message board (or any social media for that matter) to define racism as it pertains to Iowa football. I do think it's super obvious to anyone listening that many black athletes that played football at Iowa didn't feel welcomed and at times felt targeted. I also think that regardless of the outcome of the investigation the culture at Iowa needs to change and that you can hold people accountable with out belittling or demeaning them. There are other ways to develop mental fortitude in people.
    Motigerhawk, Ree4, 4thngoal and 2 others like this.
  4. Husky28

    Husky28 Well-Known Member

    Your right. They should have as well... But I didn’t ask them, I asked you. So it’s ok to point at everyone else and say “they did it too” makes it ok? Would you let one of your children get away with using that excuse? Is that really what you want to continue to hang onto as proper journalism or being neutral and reporting on all sides of a subject? Do you want to point at and follow the masses or do you want the full truth?

    The greatest leaders aren’t those who allowed others to influence them in mass... but they forged ahead in spite of the masses to discover the truth and find the right path to justice.

    BTW- At least one of those you named has began to tweet out those former tweets and “potentially” show the previous tweets.
  5. RobHowe

    RobHowe Administrator

    We did not write a story. If we had, I could have decided whether or not to add in previous Tweets/comments. I tweeted the FB statement and UI’s response. I did the same thing here.

    James Daniels, Mike Daniels, Jaleel Johnson, Amani Hooker and a number of players who alleged mistreatment at Iowa have Tweets praising Iowa, even Doyle, from the past. I didn’t RT those, either. Speaking from experience, it happens in abusive relationships. People compliment their abusers. That doesn’t automatically discredit them when they speak out about alleged abuse.
    Ree4 likes this.
  6. RobHowe

    RobHowe Administrator

  7. HawkGold

    HawkGold Well-Known Member

    Rob is correct on abused abuser relations.
  8. RobHowe

    RobHowe Administrator

  9. ssckelley

    ssckelley Well-Known Member

    I'm struggling with Wadley's story, maybe because I'm partial to KF but I'm not 100%. I'm sure there are some truths to his stories, just like I'm sure there are some truths to DJK's stories but I'm getting the impression that these 2 just want to burn down the program. All the rest of them seemed reasonable and I'm glad they spoke up so Iowa can make changes and move forward. If you talk to enough former football players you are eventually going to come across someone who has hate and spite for the program, black or white, that will make the types of statements wishing they would have never came to Iowa. We can't expect each and every single kid that goes to Iowa have a positive experience, I'm sure there are many that walked away angry because of various reasons (playing time, disagreements with coaches, ect).

    But I will say this about KF, this all happened under his watch and for that he should be held accountable but I'm not so sure I'd go as far to demand he gets fired. I feel deep down KF is a good person, I don't know him personally but this is the impression I get and I think he will embrace the changes and become a better person.
    HawkeyeWalker, Husky28 and Hawkfnntn like this.
  10. HawkGold

    HawkGold Well-Known Member

    KF not as HC was his experience as a player.
  11. RobHowe

    RobHowe Administrator

    That's fair. I think it's human nature to determine the credibility of a source and weigh potential agendas. There's a lot of he-said, he-said here and throughout the more than 60 players that have alleged mistreatment and plenty of gray area.

    I don't think I can buy KF keeping guys out of the NFL. There are plenty of unsavory characters in the league. If you can play, you can play. It's a business.

    I'm guessing KF and CD didn't advocate for either guy and maybe that's impactful to a degree, but they didn't keep guys from making the league.

    So, when players make those claims, I think it's natural to discredit their other allegations, not that I do.
  12. haydensly

    haydensly Well-Known Member

    No but KF would have been the offensive line coach during his playing days. All he is saying is that he has known him since 1983 and he apparently thought a lot of him.
  13. RobHowe

    RobHowe Administrator

    KF and QE have a good relationship. His comments do not surprise me. And there are plenty of players who feel the same way. As he said, he's commenting on his experience and relationship with Iowa.
    haydensly likes this.
  14. HawkGold

    HawkGold Well-Known Member

    Yes that is apparent. People can be different when the head and when not. KF was working under a coach that really was a civil rights activist. Somewhere, somehow there is a story behind that. Who knows what it is. Wonder if KF was different with black NFL players..
  15. HawkGold

    HawkGold Well-Known Member

    What about black players from about 2012 on? When did Brian arrive back?
  16. RobHowe

    RobHowe Administrator

    Yes, Brian joined the staff in '12. He's been the OC for three seasons.
  17. HawkGold

    HawkGold Well-Known Member

    and that is when the most players were recruited/joined?
  18. RobHowe

    RobHowe Administrator

    Are you referring to players who alleged mistreatment?

    I think the majority of them are from the last decade or so but there are others that stretch back to the early to mid-2000s.
  19. kicker22

    kicker22 Well-Known Member

    So I'll weigh in on a few things.

    First, with regards to the "are you going to rob a bank/liquor store" comment being racist, its as much about how AK received it as it is about whether BF meant anything by it. For those saying there's no way its racist because they've "heard it said to white people as well", It very well may have been innocent on the part of BF, but based on the fact he referenced it to AK multiple times, I guess I'd want to know if BF made the same type of comments to white players, similar to the allegations of the "gang banging" comment. Those aren't comments you make from a position of power as the players are, first and foremost players, and not friends.

    Secondly, in regards to the AK's allegations of KF and "things inside the program not being how they appear to those on the outside" why can't both sides have legs to stand on. Could AK have an agenda? Absolutely, but at the same time that doesn't mean that what he said wasn't true. Is KF the same coach we know when he isn't in front of the cameras? They're perceptions that are never going to be 100% factual and I'm guessing the truth lies somewhere in between. We want to make it a cut and dry black and white argument in which one side is right and one side is wrong.

    I'm guessing that racism inside the program exists and KF we know and love from an outsiders view isn't the same KF the players know. The question is what will the investigation uncover and is it something that can be taken care of internally or are major changes or coaching changes needed to right the ship?
  20. okeefe4prez

    okeefe4prez Well-Known Member

    It's a buzzword that no one will define on here. What it is basically advancing is an argument for cultural relativism. As applied in these situations, it is the belief that rules or laws of general applicability that are established by a dominant culture are bad if they apply to a non-dominant culture in some manner in which individuals of the non-dominant culture view as opposition to their cultural mores, standards or beliefs.

    Let's use Italians and Russians in New Jersey as an example. Let's say that there's a nice restaurant in New Jersey that has a dress code that says "all gentlemen must wear a coat and tie" and an "all conversations must be reasonably quiet" rule.

    Say a group of Russians wearing Adidas track suits shows up at the restaurant and protests the dress code by noting that they are wearing their finest evening wear. Cultural relativism would say that it is wrong of the restaurant to apply the dress code rule to them because the suit and tie rule is an offshoot of WASP ideals of gentlemanly behavior and that it is cultural imperialism for that rule of general applicability to be used against the Russians.

    Later that night, a group of 16 Italians has 4 tables pushed together and the patriarch of the family thinks he is Tony Soprano and yells vulgarities at the top of his lungs to make sure that his second cousin at the other end of the table can hear his jokes. Pearls are clutched all around the restaurant and some Karen, after fanning herself and trying to cover little Xander's ears, asks the manager to ask them to keep it down. If the manager asks the Italian family to keep it down, the cultural relativist would say it is wrong because again, the volume rule is an attempt to enforce WASP-ish notions of gentlemanly behaviors against Italians, who may possess different notions of appropriate behavior in a restaurant.

    For real world examples, look at some of the media "defenses" of Mike Vick and Adrian Peterson. Some cultural relativists rushed to their defense by saying their behaviors were acceptable when measured against their cultures. It wasn't a lot, but as time marches on, these sorts of defenses will become more and more accepted.